[nagdu] What about registering service dogs with the DOJ?

Tue Aug 20 22:37:25 UTC 2013

thank you Michael, well said best, Hal 

----- Original Message -----
From: Michael Hingson <mike at michaelhingson.com>
To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'" nagdu at nfbnet.org
Date: Tuesday, August 20, 2013 2:32 pm
Subject: Re: [nagdu] What about registering service dogs with the DOJ?

>
>
> So what is the problem here?  We are concerned not about anything except
> poorly behaved animals in public.  Yes some could break the law by
> misrepresenting their animals as service oriented when they are not, but the
> only time it is REALLY an issue is when the animal misbehaves.
> 
> While in a perfect world no onewould misrepresent their animal we aren't
> going to get that.  In a perfect world no guide dog user will have a poorly
> behaved guide dog.  We don't get that either.
> 
> If it is a choice between finding a way to register me and/or Africa on the
> one hand and having stiffer laws and not bothering with some well behaved
> misrepresented non-service animals on the other I will take the latter.  I
> do not condone law-breaking, but I choose not to worry about those who
> misrepresent their animals, but who not bother anyone.
> 
> Again, the burden should not be on me or my dog.  The burden of proof MUST
> and SHOULD be on the law breakers. 
> 
> 
> Best,
> 
> 
> Michael Hingson
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Snow White Dove
> Sent: Tuesday, August 20, 2013 12:57 PM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] What about registering service dogs with the DOJ?
> 
> Hi,
> 
> I'm sorry if I offend anyone, but how can we make sure that service dogs are
> legitimate if we don't have some way to certify them.  
> 
> You can't have it both ways.  How would you penalize people with dogs that
> aren't legitimate service dogs without some sort of putting them to the
> test.
> 
> I personally would have no problem with having my fogs certified if it cuts
> down on fraudulent service animals.
> 
> JMO,
> 
> Jenny
> On Aug 20, 2013, at 10:32 AM, "Margo Downey and Arrow"
> <margo.downey at verizon.net> wrote:
> 
> > I do not think we need to register our dogs with the DOJ. I'm 
> > wondering why there is so much focus on the dogs themselves and 
> > legitimate handlers, including owner-trainers.  We need to have stiff 
> > penalties for those who fraudulently use dogs as service animals who are
> not service animals.
> > 
> > I also disagree with certification testing and evaluations.  We have 
> > gone over and over this for a long time.  Certification evaluations 
> > would serve no great purpose.
> > 
> > Margoa ndArrow
> > 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Michael 
> > Hingson
> > Sent: Tuesday, August 20, 2013 8:41 AM
> > To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
> > Subject: Re: [nagdu] What about registering service dogs with the DOJ?
> > 
> > Again, why?  This is really about you and me having rights, not the
> animal.
> > The present regulations under the ADA offer a way to  determine 
> > whether or not an aanimal fits the requirements.  If there is a 
> > suspicion that the animal is not a service animal then something can be
> done.
> > 
> > I submit that the penalties for fraudulent representation by 
> > individuals of service animals is the real problem.  We need federal 
> > and state laws changed to make it a felany to misrepresent and 
> > interfere with legitimate service animals.  I do NOT want ANY new
> identification process for me or my dog.
> > The problem and burden of proof should not be with me nor you.  The 
> > burden should fall and the criminals.
> > 
> > There is abundant proof that owner trained animals can and do function 
> > well as guides.  How are they going to be included in any identification
> process?
> > If the standards of the International Federation of Guide Dog Schools 
> > are used how will non-accredited schools such as Pilot Dogs going to 
> > be represented?  Do we want the NFB to be the gating organization?  I 
> > think no to all of these things.
> > 
> > Put the burden on the criminals and make the consiquences stiff.  If 
> > we want true first class citizenship then let's demand that we be 
> > treated appropriately and not segregated off through some additional 
> > identification or classification process which only serves to again 
> > make us seem different and not part of the norm.
> > 
> > 
> > Best,
> > 
> > 
> > Michael Hingson
> > 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Mardi 
> > Hadfield
> > Sent: Tuesday, August 20, 2013 5:30 AM
> > To: nagdu at nfbnet.org
> > Subject: [nagdu] What about registering service dogs with the DOJ?
> > 
> > First of all I am not in favor of any type of certification. I do 
> > think registration identification might be the way to go.If the DOJ 
> > could be in charge of handing out a specific type of service dog tag 
> > at a fee of say,
> > $10 to register your service dog.Say you must have a letter from your 
> > doctor that you do indeed have a disability and a certificate from 
> > your trainer,or in the case of an owner trainer,a log of the hours of 
> > training you accomplished and a list of the tasks the dog does to 
> > mitigate your disability,and or maybe the Canine Good Citizen test in 
> > order to register with the DOJ.If you have a School trained dog and 
> > wanted to register with the DOJ, maybe the school ID would be the only 
> > proof you would need for registration.This would not be mandatory, but 
> > only if you wanted to register your service dog.I don't think that 
> > people who fake their dogs would go through all that for a 
> > registration ID tag.This would Identify a DOJ registered service 
> > dog.There might be some fakes that get through but it would certainly 
> > cut down on them.If the tag were to get lost, a fee of
> > $5 could be charged to get a replacement tag.This is merely a suggestion.
> > Mardi and Shaman and Neechee,GDIT.
> > 
> > --
> > http://wolfsinger-lakota.blogspot.com/
> > http://wolfsinger2-thegoldendragon.blogspot.com
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