[nagdu] Changing the rules when you get home (was I'm back)

Larry D. Keeler lkeeler at comcast.net
Fri Aug 23 13:27:49 UTC 2013 

So did I. However, I actually haven't really broken them. Just bend them 
some!
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Shanna Stichler" <slstich at gmail.com>
To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users" 
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, August 23, 2013 1:40 AM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Changing the rules when you get home (was I'm back)


> With my program dogs, I think I stuck to the school rules at first for 
> each one. Once I got to know the dog better, then I deviated from those 
> guidelines when I needed to. I have never used GDB's "over here" command, 
> which is when the dog switches sides in order to go through doors opening 
> toward the team. I found that it just wasn't practical for me, so I came 
> up with a method that sounds pretty similar to what TSE uses, actually. :D 
> I also did clicker work with my dogs, and this was before GDB was using 
> clicker training in their program. Oh, and I always, always switched their 
> food to something I liked better.
>
> I think mostly, the schools have all these rules because they want to 
> cover every possible eventuality, if that makes sense. Mostly, they're 
> sound enough, but it's fine to come up with different methods that work 
> better for us when we get home. JMO though, of course.
>
> Shanna and Diamond
> On 8/22/2013 3:26 PM, Shannon Dyer wrote:
>> This is really sound advice, Tracy. While in class, we are in a controled 
>> environment. Therefore, the school rules can and do work for us. However, 
>> once we get home, and our dogs have to function in the environment we're 
>> used to, things can change.
>>
>> Like you, I stopped doing the door thing pretty quickly after coming home 
>> with each of my dogs. I've also never understood heeling the dog off a 
>> bus. Too much of a chance of injury, IMO.
>>
>> Shannon and Ace
>> On Aug 22, 2013, at 11:20 AM, "Tracy Carcione" <carcione at access.net> 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I usually change the rules when I get home, if I find the school rules 
>>> aren't working for me.  I say, give the school rules a fair try, because 
>>> they may have some real value, but chuck them if they don't work for me.
>>> One example is what I think of as the TSE pirouette, a maneuver for 
>>> opening a door and going through it with the dog.  I gave it a fair try 
>>> at the school, but shortly after I got home I went back to the way I'd 
>>> been doing things and totally forgot it.
>>> Another example is that, many years ago, GDB taught that I should heel 
>>> the dog off of a bus.  I did that, until I stepped into a hole, or 
>>> smashed into a pole right outside the door--I'm sure both these things 
>>> happened--then I decided it was a stupid thing to do and have worked the 
>>> dog off the bus ever since.
>>> IMO, while many of the rules I've been taught in class do have value, 
>>> some others seem to have been made up by people with no practical 
>>> experience in the world I live in, and I will use my good judgement to 
>>> decide which are which.
>>> Tracy
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sheila Leigland" 
>>> <sleigland at bresnan.net>
>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users" 
>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Wednesday, August 21, 2013 3:11 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] I'm back
>>>
>>>
>>>> hi lyn well stated. I know a handler that goes out of the way to do 
>>>> everything differently than the school trains to do. I do know that 
>>>> some things work better for some dogs than others but the principles 
>>>> are still the same.
>>>> On 8/21/2013 11:41 AM, L Gwizdak wrote:
>>>>> Hi Chantel,
>>>>> I don't think Jenny said that ALL Pilot grads were idiots. LOL! I've 
>>>>> seen my share of poor handlers since 1971!  they came from all 
>>>>> schools.  Part of what I've seen is that grads will sometimes decide 
>>>>> that the school is full of crap when the school asks you to do things 
>>>>> in a certain way when you get home with a new dog.  the grad blows off 
>>>>> the school and does things as they please - not realizing that the 
>>>>> school tells you things because they do really know better what has 
>>>>> worked and not worked for grads when they get home.
>>>>>
>>>>> At TSE, EVERYTHING done has a purpose!  Even the simple things like 
>>>>> going to the dining room for meals.  At lunch time, all the employees 
>>>>> and guests have lunch with us during the week.  For us students, they 
>>>>> have us come in after the staff and guests are already eating and they 
>>>>> are seated near the door in the first section of the dining room.  We 
>>>>> are required to work our dogs past these tables with people eating at 
>>>>> them.  This arrangement sets up a situation that we will find when we 
>>>>> go to restaurants.  Every day, we are practicing how to work the dogs 
>>>>> in a restaurant type setting.  In lecture, our dogs are in harness and 
>>>>> lying quietly at our feet.  This is like if wwe were at a meeting we 
>>>>> would go to when we get home.
>>>>>
>>>>> I do think some schools are more thorouogh in some things than other 
>>>>> schools.  I see that some other schools do not place a premium on 
>>>>> getting dogs out of the way when we are sitting in a meeting where we 
>>>>> sit at tables. Some of the dog users just let their dogs lie on the 
>>>>> floor in the way where they get tripped over.  The Seeing Eye is a 
>>>>> real stickler on this issue of making sure our dogs are out of the 
>>>>> way - under chairs or the table where they will not be tripped over.
>>>>>
>>>>> But many problems are from lax handling by new users AND long-time 
>>>>> handlers because they don't think about what they are doing.
>>>>>
>>>>> Lyn and Landon
>>>>> "Asking who's the man and who's the woman in an LGBT relationship is 
>>>>> like asking which chopstick is the fork" - Unknown
>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chantel Cuddemi" 
>>>>> <jawsgirl87 at gmail.com>
>>>>> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'" 
>>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, August 20, 2013 11:59 AM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] I'm back
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Jenny,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I am a Pilot grad, and I went through the achievement walk twice, and 
>>>>>> I had
>>>>>> to stay for extra training.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So, are you saying that all Pilot grads are idiots? Pilot's name is 
>>>>>> engraved
>>>>>> on Motley's harness.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Chantel and Motley.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Snow White 
>>>>>> Dove
>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, August 20, 2013 2:20 PM
>>>>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] I'm back
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I got Shasta at Pilot.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I was and am astounded by their training of their dogs and their 
>>>>>> students.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I know they have a fowl reputation.  but when I was there, I saw why.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> There were a couple of women ther that never should've gotten their 
>>>>>> dogs
>>>>>> because they didn't have to go through the full achievement walk to
>>>>>> determine whether they are fit for a dog.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Basically what I'm trying to say, politely, but truthfully is, that 
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> reputation of Pilot is marred only by the idiots they let go home 
>>>>>> with dogs
>>>>>> they sshouldn't have giving to people.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> For any questions on the details of this opinion.  Please email me 
>>>>>> off list
>>>>>> so as to not clutter the list.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I just have to say this.  Pilot is, in my opinion, being considered a 
>>>>>> less
>>>>>> than desirable school ecause of the idiots that are seen because 
>>>>>> they're
>>>>>> obviously not suited to have a dog and Pilot's name is on that 
>>>>>> harness.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> No one sees Pilot on the harnesses of those who handle their dogs 
>>>>>> well and
>>>>>> just blend in.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Anyway, I'm done gushing over my experiences.  Please don't feel 
>>>>>> offended by
>>>>>> anything I might have said.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If I've overstepped my bounds with the moderators.  Please know that
>>>>>> apologize.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Jenny
>>>>>> On Aug 19, 2013, at 7:34 PM, Marsha Drenth <marsha.drenth at gmail.com> 
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Jenny,
>>>>>>> congratulations!
>>>>>>> What an interesting name..Where did you get Mr Shasta? I don't 
>>>>>>> remember
>>>>>> what school you apply to. Sorry.
>>>>>>> May you both have many years of wonderful working relationship 
>>>>>>> together.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Marsha drenth
>>>>>>> Sent with my IPhone
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Aug 19, 2013, at 7:02 PM, Snow White Dove <jlperdue3 at gmail.com> 
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Wanted to write to tell you all that I finally did it.  I know
>>>>>> Cynprobably let you guys know already, but I figured I'd write 
>>>>>> myself.
>>>>>>>> I came home August 9th with an English Black lab named Shasta.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> He's a wonderful worker and has a great personality, but boy I 
>>>>>>>> wasn't
>>>>>> sure of the personality part in the beginning or whether I could 
>>>>>> handle him
>>>>>> at all.
>>>>>>>> If he had not been on leash I think he'd have bounced off the walls 
>>>>>>>> all
>>>>>> on his own steam.
>>>>>>>> He settled down, and things are pretty cool now, but being 19 
>>>>>>>> months old,
>>>>>> he's a chewer.  I've had him on leash since I got him, and everything 
>>>>>> was
>>>>>> fine till I got home with my brand new leather leash which he chewed 
>>>>>> in half
>>>>>> in a perfectly streight line in two seconds flat.
>>>>>>>> Needless to say, I was embarrassed to call the school to order a 
>>>>>>>> new
>>>>>> leash, but more embarrassed when the head trainer answered the phone. 
>>>>>> He
>>>>>> was cool about it, well for him, and said to give him a couple of 
>>>>>> weeks to
>>>>>> get more leashes as theyn were out.
>>>>>>>> I'm hoping they'll just give me a new one, but I don't think I'll 
>>>>>>>> be that
>>>>>> lucky.
>>>>>>>> Also, he appears to be a dog, but is a beaver.  He eats anything 
>>>>>>>> wooden
>>>>>> outside, and I can't seem to break him of it.  I've said no, leash
>>>>>> corrections, drop it and removed sticks and twigs from his mouth. 
>>>>>> ug.
>>>>>>>> Hope to hear from you guys soon.  I just did a mass delete before I 
>>>>>>>> wrote
>>>>>> you all, so if you wrote me about Shasta, please forgive me and send 
>>>>>> it
>>>>>> again.
>>>>>>>> Have a great day.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Jenny
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>
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>>>>>
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