[nagdu] Changing the rules when you get home (was I'm back)

Nicole Torcolini ntorcolini at wavecable.com
Sat Aug 24 18:58:53 UTC 2013


I think what it boils down to is:
1. Is what you are doing safe for the public, your dog, and yourself.
2. Is what you are doing affecting the way your dog works.
3. Is what you are doing causing your dog to behave inappropriately .
I think that we, including the schools, usually have the same goals in mind.
It's just that we think of achieving them in different ways, and there is
not necessarily one right way.

-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Larry D. Keeler
Sent: Saturday, August 24, 2013 11:52 AM
To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Changing the rules when you get home (was I'm back)

Yah, Darla. I think the rules taught are a great template but depending on
your lifestyle some of the rules can be bent. I too do this but, guide dog
rules mostly still apply as well as many of the rules concerning other folks
homes and the like.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Darla Rogers" <djrogers0628 at gmail.com>
To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'" 
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Saturday, August 24, 2013 2:21 PM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Changing the rules when you get home (was I'm back)


> Dear Sherry and others,
> I believe, for the most part, we change the rules to suit special 
> needs or desires, and so long as our dogs remain good canine citizens 
> and meet our needs, I don't see an issue with it, and I have seen many 
> great posts about rules or procedures that have been changed that make 
> a lot of sense to me.
> The rules seem overly strict, but one reason for that, is class 
> management more than individual management, as I know I balked at a 
> few rules but when considering them more, I understand that there are 
> limited hours to get training done and interruptions can put training 
> time in jeopardy.\ Darla & handsome, hardworking Huck
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Sherry 
> Gomes
> Sent: Friday, August 23, 2013 5:22 AM
> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Changing the rules when you get home (was I'm 
> back)
>
> Yeah, I agree. I think the rules are more for guidelines when we get home.

> I
> certainly change them. Depending on the dog, I let them off leash or 
> tie-down much earlier. I let them sleep on my bed. I give them treats 
> from my hand not their bowl. I do heel my dogs off buses but that's 
> due to my disabilities and needing to hold onto something on both 
> sides. There are some rules I never have changed, but those are things 
> I consider deeply serious and for the dog's benefit and safety as well as
my own.
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Shanna 
> Stichler
> Sent: Thursday, August 22, 2013 11:40 PM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Changing the rules when you get home (was I'm 
> back)
>
> With my program dogs, I think I stuck to the school rules at first for 
> each one. Once I got to know the dog better, then I deviated from 
> those guidelines when I needed to. I have never used GDB's "over here"
> command, which is when the dog switches sides in order to go through 
> doors opening toward the team. I found that it just wasn't practical 
> for me, so I came up with a method that sounds pretty similar to what 
> TSE uses, actually.
> :D I also did clicker work with my dogs, and this was before GDB was 
> using clicker training in their program. Oh, and I always, always 
> switched their food to something I liked better.
>
> I think mostly, the schools have all these rules because they want to 
> cover every possible eventuality, if that makes sense. Mostly, they're 
> sound enough, but it's fine to come up with different methods that 
> work better for us when we get home. JMO though, of course.
>
> Shanna and Diamond
> On 8/22/2013 3:26 PM, Shannon Dyer wrote:
>> This is really sound advice, Tracy. While in class, we are in a 
>> controled
> environment. Therefore, the school rules can and do work for us. 
> However, once we get home, and our dogs have to function in the 
> environment we're used to, things can change.
>>
>> Like you, I stopped doing the door thing pretty quickly after coming 
>> home
> with each of my dogs. I've also never understood heeling the dog off a 
> bus.
> Too much of a chance of injury, IMO.
>>
>> Shannon and Ace
>> On Aug 22, 2013, at 11:20 AM, "Tracy Carcione" <carcione at access.net>
> wrote:
>>
>>> I usually change the rules when I get home, if I find the school 
>>> rules
> aren't working for me.  I say, give the school rules a fair try, 
> because they may have some real value, but chuck them if they don't work
for me.
>>> One example is what I think of as the TSE pirouette, a maneuver for
> opening a door and going through it with the dog.  I gave it a fair 
> try at the school, but shortly after I got home I went back to the way 
> I'd been doing things and totally forgot it.
>>> Another example is that, many years ago, GDB taught that I should 
>>> heel
> the dog off of a bus.  I did that, until I stepped into a hole, or 
> smashed into a pole right outside the door--I'm sure both these things 
> happened--then I decided it was a stupid thing to do and have worked 
> the dog off the bus ever since.
>>> IMO, while many of the rules I've been taught in class do have 
>>> value,
> some others seem to have been made up by people with no practical 
> experience in the world I live in, and I will use my good judgement to 
> decide which are which.
>>> Tracy
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sheila Leigland"
> <sleigland at bresnan.net>
>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Wednesday, August 21, 2013 3:11 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] I'm back
>>>
>>>
>>>> hi lyn well stated. I know a handler that goes out of the way to do
> everything differently than the school trains to do. I do know that some
> things work better for some dogs than others but the principles are still
> the same.
>>>> On 8/21/2013 11:41 AM, L Gwizdak wrote:
>>>>> Hi Chantel,
>>>>> I don't think Jenny said that ALL Pilot grads were idiots. LOL!
>>>>> I've
> seen my share of poor handlers since 1971!  they came from all schools.
> Part of what I've seen is that grads will sometimes decide that the school
> is full of crap when the school asks you to do things in a certain way 
> when
> you get home with a new dog.  the grad blows off the school and does 
> things
> as they please - not realizing that the school tells you things because 
> they
> do really know better what has worked and not worked for grads when they 
> get
> home.
>>>>>
>>>>> At TSE, EVERYTHING done has a purpose!  Even the simple things like
> going to the dining room for meals.  At lunch time, all the employees and
> guests have lunch with us during the week.  For us students, they have us
> come in after the staff and guests are already eating and they are seated
> near the door in the first section of the dining room.  We are required to
> work our dogs past these tables with people eating at them.  This
> arrangement sets up a situation that we will find when we go to 
> restaurants.
> Every day, we are practicing how to work the dogs in a restaurant type
> setting.  In lecture, our dogs are in harness and lying quietly at our 
> feet.
> This is like if wwe were at a meeting we would go to when we get home.
>>>>>
>>>>> I do think some schools are more thorouogh in some things than
>>>>> other
> schools.  I see that some other schools do not place a premium on getting
> dogs out of the way when we are sitting in a meeting where we sit at 
> tables.
> Some of the dog users just let their dogs lie on the floor in the way 
> where
> they get tripped over.  The Seeing Eye is a real stickler on this issue of
> making sure our dogs are out of the way - under chairs or the table where
> they will not be tripped over.
>>>>>
>>>>> But many problems are from lax handling by new users AND long-time
> handlers because they don't think about what they are doing.
>>>>>
>>>>> Lyn and Landon
>>>>> "Asking who's the man and who's the woman in an LGBT relationship
>>>>> is
> like asking which chopstick is the fork" - Unknown
>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chantel Cuddemi"
> <jawsgirl87 at gmail.com>
>>>>> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'"
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, August 20, 2013 11:59 AM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] I'm back
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Jenny,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I am a Pilot grad, and I went through the achievement walk twice,
>>>>>> and
> I had
>>>>>> to stay for extra training.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So, are you saying that all Pilot grads are idiots? Pilot's name
>>>>>> is
> engraved
>>>>>> on Motley's harness.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Chantel and Motley.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Snow
>>>>>> White
> Dove
>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, August 20, 2013 2:20 PM
>>>>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] I'm back
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I got Shasta at Pilot.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I was and am astounded by their training of their dogs and their
> students.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I know they have a fowl reputation.  but when I was there, I saw why.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> There were a couple of women ther that never should've gotten
>>>>>> their
> dogs
>>>>>> because they didn't have to go through the full achievement walk
>>>>>> to determine whether they are fit for a dog.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Basically what I'm trying to say, politely, but truthfully is,
>>>>>> that
> the
>>>>>> reputation of Pilot is marred only by the idiots they let go home
>>>>>> with
> dogs
>>>>>> they sshouldn't have giving to people.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> For any questions on the details of this opinion.  Please email me
>>>>>> off
> list
>>>>>> so as to not clutter the list.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I just have to say this.  Pilot is, in my opinion, being
>>>>>> considered a
> less
>>>>>> than desirable school ecause of the idiots that are seen because
> they're
>>>>>> obviously not suited to have a dog and Pilot's name is on that
> harness.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> No one sees Pilot on the harnesses of those who handle their dogs
>>>>>> well
> and
>>>>>> just blend in.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Anyway, I'm done gushing over my experiences.  Please don't feel
> offended by
>>>>>> anything I might have said.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If I've overstepped my bounds with the moderators.  Please know
>>>>>> that apologize.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Jenny
>>>>>> On Aug 19, 2013, at 7:34 PM, Marsha Drenth
>>>>>> <marsha.drenth at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Jenny,
>>>>>>> congratulations!
>>>>>>> What an interesting name..Where did you get Mr Shasta? I don't
> remember
>>>>>> what school you apply to. Sorry.
>>>>>>> May you both have many years of wonderful working relationship
> together.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Marsha drenth
>>>>>>> Sent with my IPhone
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Aug 19, 2013, at 7:02 PM, Snow White Dove
>>>>>>> <jlperdue3 at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Wanted to write to tell you all that I finally did it.  I know
>>>>>> Cynprobably let you guys know already, but I figured I'd write 
>>>>>> myself.
>>>>>>>> I came home August 9th with an English Black lab named Shasta.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> He's a wonderful worker and has a great personality, but boy I
> wasn't
>>>>>> sure of the personality part in the beginning or whether I could
> handle him
>>>>>> at all.
>>>>>>>> If he had not been on leash I think he'd have bounced off the
>>>>>>>> walls
> all
>>>>>> on his own steam.
>>>>>>>> He settled down, and things are pretty cool now, but being 19
>>>>>>>> months
> old,
>>>>>> he's a chewer.  I've had him on leash since I got him, and
>>>>>> everything
> was
>>>>>> fine till I got home with my brand new leather leash which he
>>>>>> chewed
> in half
>>>>>> in a perfectly streight line in two seconds flat.
>>>>>>>> Needless to say, I was embarrassed to call the school to order a
>>>>>>>> new
>>>>>> leash, but more embarrassed when the head trainer answered the phone.
> He
>>>>>> was cool about it, well for him, and said to give him a couple of
> weeks to
>>>>>> get more leashes as theyn were out.
>>>>>>>> I'm hoping they'll just give me a new one, but I don't think
>>>>>>>> I'll be
> that
>>>>>> lucky.
>>>>>>>> Also, he appears to be a dog, but is a beaver.  He eats anything
> wooden
>>>>>> outside, and I can't seem to break him of it.  I've said no, leash
>>>>>> corrections, drop it and removed sticks and twigs from his mouth. 
>>>>>> ug.
>>>>>>>> Hope to hear from you guys soon.  I just did a mass delete
>>>>>>>> before I
> wrote
>>>>>> you all, so if you wrote me about Shasta, please forgive me and
>>>>>> send
> it
>>>>>> again.
>>>>>>>> Have a great day.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Jenny
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
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