[nagdu] Equipment was RE: Changing the rules when you get home

Sat Aug 24 04:23:28 UTC 2013

Is it an all cloth martingale or one that is mostly cloth with a metal
chain? The ones that are cloth probably don't pull and release as fast or as
hard. I know a little about martingale collars because my family had a pet
dog for a while who never learned not to strangle  herself. Even with a
martingale instead of a choke chain, she still had to wear a halty.

-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of minh ha
Sent: Friday, August 23, 2013 8:05 PM
To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Equipment was RE: Changing the rules when you get home

Larry,

That's really interesting that there's a cloth version of a choke chain.
Does it work like a regular metal choke chain? I'm curious because my
boyfriend's guide was originally on a CC, but he's developed some throat
problems that we're still trying to figure out and the vet recommended
letting his throat rest for a while. So we switched him to a martingail
collar and it's helped his throat a lot, but he doesn't seem to react the
same to leash corrections.

Minh

On 8/23/13, Larry D. Keeler <lkeeler at comcast.net> wrote:
> Nicole, of course you're right! I use what folks cal the choke chain. 
> I call
>
> the thing a check chain. Well, i've changed to a cloth version of the 
> same thing put out by Softlines. Anyway, if you misuse it then its not so
good.
> If you whatever tool you know properly, it shouldn't cause issues.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Nicole Torcolini" <ntorcolini at wavecable.com>
> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'"
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Friday, August 23, 2013 8:43 PM
> Subject: [nagdu] Equipment was RE: Changing the rules when you get 
> home
>
>
>>A lot of people I know get freaked out when people talk about pinch 
>>collars,  but I don't think that it is that much of a deal. The bottom 
>>line is that  any equipment can be misused; it's just sometimes easier 
>>to inadvertently  misuse certain equipment than others.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Doug 
>> Parisian
>> Sent: Friday, August 23, 2013 4:45 PM
>> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Changing the rules when you get home
>>
>> Guess I've never thought of myself as changing the rules, but rather 
>> doing what I have found to be best for my dog, myself, and working 
>> both of us into the particular environment.  In Winnipeg, this can 
>> mean "gunning it"
>> across
>> intersections so as not to be standing with my dog's bare feet on 
>> cold cement when the temperature is minus 30 and my bus, which runs 
>> once every half hour, is at the stop where I want to board.  So, 
>> according to some ego-centric trainers (and there are at least one or 
>> two) I've broken all their hard work in terms of traffic checks.  
>> Truth is, my reason for working with a dog guide is not primarily to 
>> keep me safe in traffic, but rather to find the best path, to avoid 
>> living or dead obstacles, etc.  When I am exposed to the panicked 
>> traffic lectures at my school,, it's time for a brief nap.
>>
>> And indeed, I have found the pinch collar works out for several 
>> reasons, one of which is to keep the busy-body segment of the public 
>> out of my hair.
>> It
>> takes very little action from a properly used pinch collar to get the 
>> dog back on focus.  Be warned though that if miss-used, the pinch 
>> collar can also cause serious pain and harm.  The dogs where I've 
>> used the pinch collar have no fear of it, but they do behave a little 
>> better when it's on and that carries over to the regular choker.
>>
>> Doug: why is my dog's neck so thin?
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Howard J. Levine" <WB2HWW at earthlink.net>
>> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'"
>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Friday, August 23, 2013 6:15 PM
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Changing the rules when you get home
>>
>>
>> : Right on I agree with you 100 percent, I live in New York can't 
>> stop, must
>> : get out of street as fast as you can. You just do what works for you.
>> :
>> : -----Original Message-----
>> : From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Raven 
>> Tolliver
>> : Sent: Friday, August 23, 2013 12:19 PM
>> : To: nagdu at nfbnet.org
>> : Subject: Re: [nagdu] Changing the rules when you get home
>> :
>> : I changed a lot more than just the rules.
>> : One of the first things I did was put the choke chain to rest, and 
>> switch to
>> : a prong collar. I did not like the chain because frequently, it got 
>> caught
>> : in my golden's fur, and it would turn around and slide down his 
>> neck. I
>> : could never keep it in a proper position for a leash correction. I 
>> also did
>> : not like the idea of briefly choking my dog for a leash correction. 
>> So for
>>
>> a
>> : couple months, I used the prong collar, and it worked much better 
>> for me.
>> : Then, I just switched to the martingale check collar, which is what 
>> I use
>> : now.
>> : I don't remember if my school said to heel the dog off of a bus or not.
>> : Regardless, I work him off the bus. I gauge how much of a step down 
>> there is
>> : by his behavior. If he steps right off after being cued to go 
>> forward,
>> : there's obviously not much of a step. But if he stops in the 
>> doorway, and
>> : does not obey the cue "forward," I know that there is a larger step 
>> down.
>> : The school did say not to have the dog lay down on the bus. I don't 
>> think
>> : this is practical, especially for longer bus rides. It doesn't come
>> : naturally for my dog to just sit up while the bus is moving, so he 
>> just lays
>> : down, and I slide him back under the seat. If someone comes on with 
>> a
>> : wheelchair, stroller, or cart, I briefly grab up his front paws.
>> : The school taught us to switch the dog over to the right side when 
>> working
>> : through doors that opened out to the left. The only time I'll 
>> maneuver
>> : through a doorway by doing a complete 360 is when I am carrying 
>> things in my
>> : right hand.
>> : I stopped treating so frequently concerning curbs and stairs. The 
>> school had
>> : us treating at every curb, which is just ridiculous, especially the 
>> way they
>> : had us stopping at the curb when we reached the other side of the 
>> street.
>> : They trained the dog to stop with its front paws on the curb, but 
>> you and
>> : the rest of your dog would still be hanging out in the road. I'm 
>> sorry, but
>> : I did not like that at all.
>> : Not all roads have bike lanes to just hang out in, and you only 
>> have about
>> : 20-30 seconds to get your butts across the road and out of the 
>> road. So
>>
>> I
>> : allowed my dog to continue over the curb, and just verbally praised 
>> him for
>> : it. It's just not necessary to stop in the street after crossing 
>> the road.
>> : At stairs, I allowed him to go up stairs without stopping at them.
>> : Usually, he stops at stairs whether they are going up or down, but 
>> if he
>> : does not stop, I don't rework it because I personally can feel 
>> through my
>> : harness whether my dog is stepping up or down.
>> : Too, when crossing streets, the school discouraged any kind of 
>> automatic
>> : turning after crossing. If we needed to make a turn, we were 
>> instructed
>>
>> to
>> : take two or three steps after the curb, cue "wait," then cue our 
>> dogs left
>> : or right. Again, not practical, at least, not in my environment. On 
>> campus,
>> : there isn't a lawn on the street side of the sidewalk, so turns 
>> after
>> : crossing have to be immediate. I have to cue my dog "to the curb, 
>> right.
>> To
>> : the curb, right," or else, we will pass up the turn.
>> : I also changed my dog's diet. He is now on a fish-based, grain, 
>> gluten, and
>> : soy-free dog food. And I started feeding my dog fruit -- 
>> cantaloupe,
>> : honey-do, and pear. He has never been interested in vegetables.
>> : When I lived with my parents, I did not let him off leash until his
>> : off-leash recall was reliable. And I did not force him to sleep on 
>> his bed
>> : or in his crate. He was restricted to sleeping in my bedroom with 
>> me, but
>> : the spot was up to him. He never got up on the bed, since he 
>> considered
>> : jumping up on the furniture a sin. Here in my apartment, he sleeps 
>> wherever
>> : - in the bathroom, living room, somewhere in the bedroom. The spot 
>> is up to
>> : him and he moves around throughout the night.
>> : He has never had an accident indoors. My puppy-raisers even said 
>> that he
>> : never had an accident with them, even when he was sick. But 
>> sometimes, I
>> : will take him out if I wake up around two or three in the morning 
>> though.
>> : Oh, and lastly, I got him several squeaky toys. I don't know why 
>> schools say
>> : not to get them. Maybe because dogs will try to chew the squeakers 
>> out and
>> : eat them? My golden guy loves his squeaky toys, and I always 
>> monitor him if
>> : he's playing independently with anything but a Nylobone.
>> :
>> :
>> : --
>> : Raven
>> :
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