[nagdu] Equipment was RE: Changing the rules when you get home

Larry D. Keeler lkeeler at comcast.net
Sat Aug 24 15:36:09 UTC 2013


I don't know about the Martingale but the thing from Softlines works just 
like the chain. I like it because they come in different colors with 
patterns on. Holly's is lavender with pink hearts on! Don't laugh! She also 
has one that's blue and yellow. Its biggest advantage is that hair doesn't 
get caught in between the links.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Nicole Torcolini" <ntorcolini at wavecable.com>
To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'" 
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Saturday, August 24, 2013 12:23 AM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Equipment was RE: Changing the rules when you get home


> Is it an all cloth martingale or one that is mostly cloth with a metal
> chain? The ones that are cloth probably don't pull and release as fast or 
> as
> hard. I know a little about martingale collars because my family had a pet
> dog for a while who never learned not to strangle  herself. Even with a
> martingale instead of a choke chain, she still had to wear a halty.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of minh ha
> Sent: Friday, August 23, 2013 8:05 PM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Equipment was RE: Changing the rules when you get 
> home
>
> Larry,
>
> That's really interesting that there's a cloth version of a choke chain.
> Does it work like a regular metal choke chain? I'm curious because my
> boyfriend's guide was originally on a CC, but he's developed some throat
> problems that we're still trying to figure out and the vet recommended
> letting his throat rest for a while. So we switched him to a martingail
> collar and it's helped his throat a lot, but he doesn't seem to react the
> same to leash corrections.
>
> Minh
>
> On 8/23/13, Larry D. Keeler <lkeeler at comcast.net> wrote:
>> Nicole, of course you're right! I use what folks cal the choke chain.
>> I call
>>
>> the thing a check chain. Well, i've changed to a cloth version of the
>> same thing put out by Softlines. Anyway, if you misuse it then its not so
> good.
>> If you whatever tool you know properly, it shouldn't cause issues.
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Nicole Torcolini" <ntorcolini at wavecable.com>
>> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'"
>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Friday, August 23, 2013 8:43 PM
>> Subject: [nagdu] Equipment was RE: Changing the rules when you get
>> home
>>
>>
>>>A lot of people I know get freaked out when people talk about pinch
>>>collars,  but I don't think that it is that much of a deal. The bottom
>>>line is that  any equipment can be misused; it's just sometimes easier
>>>to inadvertently  misuse certain equipment than others.
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Doug
>>> Parisian
>>> Sent: Friday, August 23, 2013 4:45 PM
>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Changing the rules when you get home
>>>
>>> Guess I've never thought of myself as changing the rules, but rather
>>> doing what I have found to be best for my dog, myself, and working
>>> both of us into the particular environment.  In Winnipeg, this can
>>> mean "gunning it"
>>> across
>>> intersections so as not to be standing with my dog's bare feet on
>>> cold cement when the temperature is minus 30 and my bus, which runs
>>> once every half hour, is at the stop where I want to board.  So,
>>> according to some ego-centric trainers (and there are at least one or
>>> two) I've broken all their hard work in terms of traffic checks.
>>> Truth is, my reason for working with a dog guide is not primarily to
>>> keep me safe in traffic, but rather to find the best path, to avoid
>>> living or dead obstacles, etc.  When I am exposed to the panicked
>>> traffic lectures at my school,, it's time for a brief nap.
>>>
>>> And indeed, I have found the pinch collar works out for several
>>> reasons, one of which is to keep the busy-body segment of the public
>>> out of my hair.
>>> It
>>> takes very little action from a properly used pinch collar to get the
>>> dog back on focus.  Be warned though that if miss-used, the pinch
>>> collar can also cause serious pain and harm.  The dogs where I've
>>> used the pinch collar have no fear of it, but they do behave a little
>>> better when it's on and that carries over to the regular choker.
>>>
>>> Doug: why is my dog's neck so thin?
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Howard J. Levine" <WB2HWW at earthlink.net>
>>> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'"
>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Friday, August 23, 2013 6:15 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Changing the rules when you get home
>>>
>>>
>>> : Right on I agree with you 100 percent, I live in New York can't
>>> stop, must
>>> : get out of street as fast as you can. You just do what works for you.
>>> :
>>> : -----Original Message-----
>>> : From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Raven
>>> Tolliver
>>> : Sent: Friday, August 23, 2013 12:19 PM
>>> : To: nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>> : Subject: Re: [nagdu] Changing the rules when you get home
>>> :
>>> : I changed a lot more than just the rules.
>>> : One of the first things I did was put the choke chain to rest, and
>>> switch to
>>> : a prong collar. I did not like the chain because frequently, it got
>>> caught
>>> : in my golden's fur, and it would turn around and slide down his
>>> neck. I
>>> : could never keep it in a proper position for a leash correction. I
>>> also did
>>> : not like the idea of briefly choking my dog for a leash correction.
>>> So for
>>>
>>> a
>>> : couple months, I used the prong collar, and it worked much better
>>> for me.
>>> : Then, I just switched to the martingale check collar, which is what
>>> I use
>>> : now.
>>> : I don't remember if my school said to heel the dog off of a bus or 
>>> not.
>>> : Regardless, I work him off the bus. I gauge how much of a step down
>>> there is
>>> : by his behavior. If he steps right off after being cued to go
>>> forward,
>>> : there's obviously not much of a step. But if he stops in the
>>> doorway, and
>>> : does not obey the cue "forward," I know that there is a larger step
>>> down.
>>> : The school did say not to have the dog lay down on the bus. I don't
>>> think
>>> : this is practical, especially for longer bus rides. It doesn't come
>>> : naturally for my dog to just sit up while the bus is moving, so he
>>> just lays
>>> : down, and I slide him back under the seat. If someone comes on with
>>> a
>>> : wheelchair, stroller, or cart, I briefly grab up his front paws.
>>> : The school taught us to switch the dog over to the right side when
>>> working
>>> : through doors that opened out to the left. The only time I'll
>>> maneuver
>>> : through a doorway by doing a complete 360 is when I am carrying
>>> things in my
>>> : right hand.
>>> : I stopped treating so frequently concerning curbs and stairs. The
>>> school had
>>> : us treating at every curb, which is just ridiculous, especially the
>>> way they
>>> : had us stopping at the curb when we reached the other side of the
>>> street.
>>> : They trained the dog to stop with its front paws on the curb, but
>>> you and
>>> : the rest of your dog would still be hanging out in the road. I'm
>>> sorry, but
>>> : I did not like that at all.
>>> : Not all roads have bike lanes to just hang out in, and you only
>>> have about
>>> : 20-30 seconds to get your butts across the road and out of the
>>> road. So
>>>
>>> I
>>> : allowed my dog to continue over the curb, and just verbally praised
>>> him for
>>> : it. It's just not necessary to stop in the street after crossing
>>> the road.
>>> : At stairs, I allowed him to go up stairs without stopping at them.
>>> : Usually, he stops at stairs whether they are going up or down, but
>>> if he
>>> : does not stop, I don't rework it because I personally can feel
>>> through my
>>> : harness whether my dog is stepping up or down.
>>> : Too, when crossing streets, the school discouraged any kind of
>>> automatic
>>> : turning after crossing. If we needed to make a turn, we were
>>> instructed
>>>
>>> to
>>> : take two or three steps after the curb, cue "wait," then cue our
>>> dogs left
>>> : or right. Again, not practical, at least, not in my environment. On
>>> campus,
>>> : there isn't a lawn on the street side of the sidewalk, so turns
>>> after
>>> : crossing have to be immediate. I have to cue my dog "to the curb,
>>> right.
>>> To
>>> : the curb, right," or else, we will pass up the turn.
>>> : I also changed my dog's diet. He is now on a fish-based, grain,
>>> gluten, and
>>> : soy-free dog food. And I started feeding my dog fruit -- 
>>> cantaloupe,
>>> : honey-do, and pear. He has never been interested in vegetables.
>>> : When I lived with my parents, I did not let him off leash until his
>>> : off-leash recall was reliable. And I did not force him to sleep on
>>> his bed
>>> : or in his crate. He was restricted to sleeping in my bedroom with
>>> me, but
>>> : the spot was up to him. He never got up on the bed, since he
>>> considered
>>> : jumping up on the furniture a sin. Here in my apartment, he sleeps
>>> wherever
>>> : - in the bathroom, living room, somewhere in the bedroom. The spot
>>> is up to
>>> : him and he moves around throughout the night.
>>> : He has never had an accident indoors. My puppy-raisers even said
>>> that he
>>> : never had an accident with them, even when he was sick. But
>>> sometimes, I
>>> : will take him out if I wake up around two or three in the morning
>>> though.
>>> : Oh, and lastly, I got him several squeaky toys. I don't know why
>>> schools say
>>> : not to get them. Maybe because dogs will try to chew the squeakers
>>> out and
>>> : eat them? My golden guy loves his squeaky toys, and I always
>>> monitor him if
>>> : he's playing independently with anything but a Nylobone.
>>> :
>>> :
>>> : --
>>> : Raven
>>> :
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>>
>>
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>
>
> --
> "All men dream, but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty
> recesses of their minds, wake in the day to find that it was vanity:
> but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act on their
> dreams with open eyes, to make them possible." T. E. Lawrence
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