[nagdu] Family Upset After Dog Removed From Eatery

Tami Jarvis tami at poodlemutt.com
Sat Aug 24 17:09:05 UTC 2013


Minh,

Finding lost shoes was one of the first useful things Mitzi learned to 
do as a pup. Of course, she was often the reason the shoes were lost. I 
guess she finally figured out that stealing my shoes to try to get us 
out the door for play time faster wasn't the ideal strategy. /lol/ One 
day, when it was only me losing the shoes by being a space cadet, I 
found one but could not for the life of me find the other. Just for 
grins, I showed the shoe to Mitzi and asked her to find the other shoe. 
She did! Funny poodle.

I never trained her to a full working retrieve. Well, she is a dog that 
gets a new behavior the first time, will do one repetition to show me 
she's got it and, well, that's it. As an experiment, I tried doing 
repetition according to formal methodology to build a working 
retrieve... Good thing I picked a task I don't really need! She will 
still show me things I have dropped or that I am looking for. To this 
day, she is offended that I would do such a thing as ask her to pick it 
up! Funny poodle. /smile/

Good luck with the shoes! If you find any of mine, I'll tell you where 
to send them!

Tami

On 08/24/2013 09:34 AM, minh ha wrote:
> Tami and Julie,
>
> Thanks for the explanations; they help a lot. I can see how an
> uneducated person would think that an emotional support dog is a
> service dog. Interesting point about teaching our dogs other skills
> though. I wonder if I could teach Viva to retrieve my lost shoes since
> I can never seem to find them when I'm in a rush. :)
>
> Minh
>
> On 8/24/13, Julie J. <julielj at neb.rr.com> wrote:
>> Minh,
>>
>> The distinction is the training.  Emotional support dogs do what they do by
>>
>> being a dog.  they don't have any task training.  There are service dogs for
>>
>> individuals with psychiatric conditions like PTSD that are task trained and
>>
>> those are service dogs.
>>
>> So some examples...Jane has a dog for her anxiety.  She feels less anxious
>> when she pets Fido.  In this situation Fido is not a service dog because he
>>
>> isn't doing any trained task. He would be considered an emotional support
>> dog.
>>
>> Jack has a dog, Fluffy,   for his PTSD.  Fluffy is trained to go ahead of
>> him and alert to potential triggering situations.   Jack has difficulty
>> being around individuals wearing camouflage clothing.  when Fluffy sees this
>>
>> type of clothing pattern, she nudges Jack's leg and indicates a safe route
>> to leave the area.  Fluffy is doing a trained task and is a service dog.
>>
>> Of course the person in the equation must have a disability that fits the
>> ADA definition.  I am blind and Monty is a trained guide dog, so I can enter
>>
>> no pets places with him.  However my sighted husband cannot take Monty
>> anywhere pets are not normally allowed because my husband does not have a
>> recognized disability.  Also the tasks of the dog must specifically mitigate
>>
>> the disability of the person.   If Monty were only trained to alert to
>> sounds in the environment, like a phone ringing or an emergency vehicle
>> approaching, he would not be considered a service dog for me.  I don't need
>>
>> those tasks and they do nothing to mitigate my particular disability.
>>
>> So to sum up:
>> 1. the person must have a disability as defined in the ADA
>> 2. the dog must be trained to provide specific tasks
>> 3. the specific tasks the dog does must mitigate the disability of the
>> person
>>
>> Of course service dogs can be taught additional things for entertainment,
>> convenience or whatever.  Monty brings in the newspaper in the morning.
>> that extra skill doesn't mean he isn't a guide dog.  also people with
>> multiple disabilities can choose to have a service dog to mitigate any or
>> all of their specific needs.  So someone who is blind and a wheelchair user
>>
>> might choose to have a guide dog or a dog to retrieve things for them or a
>> dog who does both types of tasks.  any of those three would still be
>> considered a service dog.
>>
>> Make sense?
>> Julie
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: minh ha
>> Sent: Saturday, August 24, 2013 10:31 AM
>> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Family Upset After Dog Removed From Eatery
>>
>> I'm a little confused. So emotional support dogs for people with
>> depression and stuff like that are by definition, not service animals?
>> But I thought veterans that come home from the war that have PTSD and
>> depression are allowed to get emotional support dogs as service
>> animals.
>>
>> Minh
>>
>> On 8/24/13, Tami Jarvis <tami at poodlemutt.com> wrote:
>>> Hey! This one seemed really clear about the laws and the distinctions.
>>> Refreshing. It's good when the quote by the Designated Expert stresses
>>> the training, especially when it comes to the different between ESAs and
>>> their SD counterparts with task training. I was glad he mentioned that
>>> the highly trained service dogs can be removed for the listed
>>> misbehaviors.
>>>
>>> Tami
>>>
>>> On 08/24/2013 06:35 AM, Ginger Kutsch wrote:
>>>> Family Upset After Dog Removed From Eatery
>>>>
>>>> by Jeff Rusack,
>>>>
>>>> August 23, 2013 8:13 PM
>>>>
>>>> Source:
>>>> http://www.kdlt.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=29327&Itemid=5
>>>> 7
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> One Sioux Falls' family is crying foul after they say they were
>>>> discriminated against for having an emotional support dog at a fast food
>>>> restaurant, Thursday.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Mocha may have brown fur but she seems to be in a grey area.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Thursday afternoon when Alan Steele and his mother Edwina decided to
>>>> dine
>>>> in
>>>> at a Sioux Falls Taco Bell, they were told to do something that
>>>> surprised
>>>> them.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> "We were asked if we were going to eat in. I said, 'yes, we are.' And he
>>>> goes, 'I'm sorry. I can't allow you to do that,'" said Alan Steele.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> The Americans with Disabilities Act allows any service animal into just
>>>> about any business.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> "On the back it says that she is a part of the American Disabled Act of
>>>> 1990," pointed out Steele.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Mocha is titled as an emotional support dog. Mocha's owner, Edwina
>>>> Steele
>>>> suffers from depression and anxiety and can't take prescriptions due to
>>>> a
>>>> heart condition, as they tried to explain to the Taco Bell staff.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> "She is a service animal, emotional support. And he goes, 'that doesn't
>>>> matter,'" added Steele.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> "Just because a dog has a vest on doesn't mean the dog is protected,"
>>>> said
>>>> Steve Slavik, the CEO of Big Paws Canine, a company that trains dogs for
>>>> Veterans dealing with post-traumatic stress disorder.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> "What a service dog is and how it is defined, is a dog that is trained
>>>> to
>>>> perform work or perform a task for an individual with a disability,"
>>>> quoted
>>>> Slavik from the American with Disabilities Act.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> And the Steele's may be out of luck when trying to bring Mocha with them
>>>> to
>>>> businesses with pet policies.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> "Dogs that wouldn't be protected are emotional support dogs and
>>>> companion
>>>> dogs. They are still considered pets and they are not defined in the
>>>> protection of the ADA," added Slavik.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> But, asking someone about their dog, when it comes to determining if
>>>> they
>>>> are indeed a service animal, can be tricky.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Businesses are only allowed to ask two questions when it comes to
>>>> service
>>>> dogs.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Is the service animal required? And what work has the dog been trained
>>>> to
>>>> perform?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Businesses cannot ask what the owners disability is or for the owner to
>>>> provide documentation.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> "If the dog is barking or being destructive to merchandise or going to
>>>> the
>>>> restroom on the floor, those types of things, even if it's a
>>>> full-fledged
>>>> 1,000 of hours training service dog, a service dog can be denied
>>>> access,"
>>>> added Slavik.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> The Steeles say there was no indication of any misbehavior at the Taco
>>>> Bell,
>>>> Thursday and they still hope for an apology from the restaurant.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> "I would like for people to ask and understand before they criticize or
>>>> discriminate against her," added Steele.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> There's no doubt Mocha is a lovable pup. But, service dog experts say an
>>>> emotional support dog has no protection when it comes to the Americans
>>>> with
>>>> Disabilities Act.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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>>>
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>>
>>
>> --
>> "All men dream, but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty
>> recesses of their minds, wake in the day to find that it was vanity:
>> but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act on
>> their dreams with open eyes, to make them possible." T. E. Lawrence
>>
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>>
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>
>




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