[nagdu] Changing the rules when you get home (was I'm back)

Sat Aug 24 18:52:10 UTC 2013

Yah, Darla. I think the rules taught are a great template but depending on 
your lifestyle some of the rules can be bent. I too do this but, guide dog 
rules mostly still apply as well as many of the rules concerning other folks 
homes and the like.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Darla Rogers" <djrogers0628 at gmail.com>
To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'" 
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Saturday, August 24, 2013 2:21 PM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Changing the rules when you get home (was I'm back)


> Dear Sherry and others,
> I believe, for the most part, we change the rules to suit special
> needs or desires, and so long as our dogs remain good canine citizens and
> meet our needs, I don't see an issue with it, and I have seen many great
> posts about rules or procedures that have been changed that make a lot of
> sense to me.
> The rules seem overly strict, but one reason for that, is class
> management more than individual management, as I know I balked at a few
> rules but when considering them more, I understand that there are limited
> hours to get training done and interruptions can put training time in
> jeopardy.\
> Darla & handsome, hardworking Huck
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Sherry Gomes
> Sent: Friday, August 23, 2013 5:22 AM
> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Changing the rules when you get home (was I'm back)
>
> Yeah, I agree. I think the rules are more for guidelines when we get home. 
> I
> certainly change them. Depending on the dog, I let them off leash or
> tie-down much earlier. I let them sleep on my bed. I give them treats from
> my hand not their bowl. I do heel my dogs off buses but that's due to my
> disabilities and needing to hold onto something on both sides. There are
> some rules I never have changed, but those are things I consider deeply
> serious and for the dog's benefit and safety as well as my own.
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Shanna Stichler
> Sent: Thursday, August 22, 2013 11:40 PM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Changing the rules when you get home (was I'm back)
>
> With my program dogs, I think I stuck to the school rules at first for 
> each
> one. Once I got to know the dog better, then I deviated from those
> guidelines when I needed to. I have never used GDB's "over here"
> command, which is when the dog switches sides in order to go through doors
> opening toward the team. I found that it just wasn't practical for me, so 
> I
> came up with a method that sounds pretty similar to what TSE uses, 
> actually.
> :D I also did clicker work with my dogs, and this was before GDB was using
> clicker training in their program. Oh, and I always, always switched their
> food to something I liked better.
>
> I think mostly, the schools have all these rules because they want to 
> cover
> every possible eventuality, if that makes sense. Mostly, they're sound
> enough, but it's fine to come up with different methods that work better 
> for
> us when we get home. JMO though, of course.
>
> Shanna and Diamond
> On 8/22/2013 3:26 PM, Shannon Dyer wrote:
>> This is really sound advice, Tracy. While in class, we are in a
>> controled
> environment. Therefore, the school rules can and do work for us. However,
> once we get home, and our dogs have to function in the environment we're
> used to, things can change.
>>
>> Like you, I stopped doing the door thing pretty quickly after coming
>> home
> with each of my dogs. I've also never understood heeling the dog off a 
> bus.
> Too much of a chance of injury, IMO.
>>
>> Shannon and Ace
>> On Aug 22, 2013, at 11:20 AM, "Tracy Carcione" <carcione at access.net>
> wrote:
>>
>>> I usually change the rules when I get home, if I find the school
>>> rules
> aren't working for me.  I say, give the school rules a fair try, because
> they may have some real value, but chuck them if they don't work for me.
>>> One example is what I think of as the TSE pirouette, a maneuver for
> opening a door and going through it with the dog.  I gave it a fair try at
> the school, but shortly after I got home I went back to the way I'd been
> doing things and totally forgot it.
>>> Another example is that, many years ago, GDB taught that I should
>>> heel
> the dog off of a bus.  I did that, until I stepped into a hole, or smashed
> into a pole right outside the door--I'm sure both these things
> happened--then I decided it was a stupid thing to do and have worked the 
> dog
> off the bus ever since.
>>> IMO, while many of the rules I've been taught in class do have value,
> some others seem to have been made up by people with no practical 
> experience
> in the world I live in, and I will use my good judgement to decide which 
> are
> which.
>>> Tracy
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sheila Leigland"
> <sleigland at bresnan.net>
>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Wednesday, August 21, 2013 3:11 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] I'm back
>>>
>>>
>>>> hi lyn well stated. I know a handler that goes out of the way to do
> everything differently than the school trains to do. I do know that some
> things work better for some dogs than others but the principles are still
> the same.
>>>> On 8/21/2013 11:41 AM, L Gwizdak wrote:
>>>>> Hi Chantel,
>>>>> I don't think Jenny said that ALL Pilot grads were idiots. LOL!
>>>>> I've
> seen my share of poor handlers since 1971!  they came from all schools.
> Part of what I've seen is that grads will sometimes decide that the school
> is full of crap when the school asks you to do things in a certain way 
> when
> you get home with a new dog.  the grad blows off the school and does 
> things
> as they please - not realizing that the school tells you things because 
> they
> do really know better what has worked and not worked for grads when they 
> get
> home.
>>>>>
>>>>> At TSE, EVERYTHING done has a purpose!  Even the simple things like
> going to the dining room for meals.  At lunch time, all the employees and
> guests have lunch with us during the week.  For us students, they have us
> come in after the staff and guests are already eating and they are seated
> near the door in the first section of the dining room.  We are required to
> work our dogs past these tables with people eating at them.  This
> arrangement sets up a situation that we will find when we go to 
> restaurants.
> Every day, we are practicing how to work the dogs in a restaurant type
> setting.  In lecture, our dogs are in harness and lying quietly at our 
> feet.
> This is like if wwe were at a meeting we would go to when we get home.
>>>>>
>>>>> I do think some schools are more thorouogh in some things than
>>>>> other
> schools.  I see that some other schools do not place a premium on getting
> dogs out of the way when we are sitting in a meeting where we sit at 
> tables.
> Some of the dog users just let their dogs lie on the floor in the way 
> where
> they get tripped over.  The Seeing Eye is a real stickler on this issue of
> making sure our dogs are out of the way - under chairs or the table where
> they will not be tripped over.
>>>>>
>>>>> But many problems are from lax handling by new users AND long-time
> handlers because they don't think about what they are doing.
>>>>>
>>>>> Lyn and Landon
>>>>> "Asking who's the man and who's the woman in an LGBT relationship
>>>>> is
> like asking which chopstick is the fork" - Unknown
>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chantel Cuddemi"
> <jawsgirl87 at gmail.com>
>>>>> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'"
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, August 20, 2013 11:59 AM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] I'm back
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Jenny,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I am a Pilot grad, and I went through the achievement walk twice,
>>>>>> and
> I had
>>>>>> to stay for extra training.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So, are you saying that all Pilot grads are idiots? Pilot's name
>>>>>> is
> engraved
>>>>>> on Motley's harness.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Chantel and Motley.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Snow
>>>>>> White
> Dove
>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, August 20, 2013 2:20 PM
>>>>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] I'm back
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I got Shasta at Pilot.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I was and am astounded by their training of their dogs and their
> students.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I know they have a fowl reputation.  but when I was there, I saw why.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> There were a couple of women ther that never should've gotten
>>>>>> their
> dogs
>>>>>> because they didn't have to go through the full achievement walk
>>>>>> to determine whether they are fit for a dog.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Basically what I'm trying to say, politely, but truthfully is,
>>>>>> that
> the
>>>>>> reputation of Pilot is marred only by the idiots they let go home
>>>>>> with
> dogs
>>>>>> they sshouldn't have giving to people.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> For any questions on the details of this opinion.  Please email me
>>>>>> off
> list
>>>>>> so as to not clutter the list.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I just have to say this.  Pilot is, in my opinion, being
>>>>>> considered a
> less
>>>>>> than desirable school ecause of the idiots that are seen because
> they're
>>>>>> obviously not suited to have a dog and Pilot's name is on that
> harness.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> No one sees Pilot on the harnesses of those who handle their dogs
>>>>>> well
> and
>>>>>> just blend in.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Anyway, I'm done gushing over my experiences.  Please don't feel
> offended by
>>>>>> anything I might have said.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If I've overstepped my bounds with the moderators.  Please know
>>>>>> that apologize.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Jenny
>>>>>> On Aug 19, 2013, at 7:34 PM, Marsha Drenth
>>>>>> <marsha.drenth at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Jenny,
>>>>>>> congratulations!
>>>>>>> What an interesting name..Where did you get Mr Shasta? I don't
> remember
>>>>>> what school you apply to. Sorry.
>>>>>>> May you both have many years of wonderful working relationship
> together.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Marsha drenth
>>>>>>> Sent with my IPhone
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Aug 19, 2013, at 7:02 PM, Snow White Dove
>>>>>>> <jlperdue3 at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Wanted to write to tell you all that I finally did it.  I know
>>>>>> Cynprobably let you guys know already, but I figured I'd write 
>>>>>> myself.
>>>>>>>> I came home August 9th with an English Black lab named Shasta.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> He's a wonderful worker and has a great personality, but boy I
> wasn't
>>>>>> sure of the personality part in the beginning or whether I could
> handle him
>>>>>> at all.
>>>>>>>> If he had not been on leash I think he'd have bounced off the
>>>>>>>> walls
> all
>>>>>> on his own steam.
>>>>>>>> He settled down, and things are pretty cool now, but being 19
>>>>>>>> months
> old,
>>>>>> he's a chewer.  I've had him on leash since I got him, and
>>>>>> everything
> was
>>>>>> fine till I got home with my brand new leather leash which he
>>>>>> chewed
> in half
>>>>>> in a perfectly streight line in two seconds flat.
>>>>>>>> Needless to say, I was embarrassed to call the school to order a
>>>>>>>> new
>>>>>> leash, but more embarrassed when the head trainer answered the phone.
> He
>>>>>> was cool about it, well for him, and said to give him a couple of
> weeks to
>>>>>> get more leashes as theyn were out.
>>>>>>>> I'm hoping they'll just give me a new one, but I don't think
>>>>>>>> I'll be
> that
>>>>>> lucky.
>>>>>>>> Also, he appears to be a dog, but is a beaver.  He eats anything
> wooden
>>>>>> outside, and I can't seem to break him of it.  I've said no, leash
>>>>>> corrections, drop it and removed sticks and twigs from his mouth. 
>>>>>> ug.
>>>>>>>> Hope to hear from you guys soon.  I just did a mass delete
>>>>>>>> before I
> wrote
>>>>>> you all, so if you wrote me about Shasta, please forgive me and
>>>>>> send
> it
>>>>>> again.
>>>>>>>> Have a great day.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Jenny
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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> for
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>>>>>>
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>>>>>
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