[nagdu] success at training

Mon Aug 26 14:17:14 UTC 2013

Mary,

Sunday evenings, well most evenings, are busy for me.  I wasn't able to join 
the call.  What, specifically, has you concerned?

Curiously,
Julie

-----Original Message----- 
From: Mary Wurtzel
Sent: Monday, August 26, 2013 2:23 AM
To: 'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
Subject: [nagdu] success at training

I was a bit concerned after our board meeting call last night.

I am the last one to want anyone to lose out on their chance to have a guide
dog.  I was sent home from one school, and my present school did more than I
could ever ask to help me be successful.
Mary

-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Shanna Stichler
Sent: Sunday, August 25, 2013 5:58 PM
To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Over here command

Darla, the dogs pick it up really quickly. I never actually formally
taught this. I just guided them with the leash the first couple times,
and they figured it out right away. I do use "over here," or "switch,"
in Diamond's case, with revolving doors, of course.

Shanna and Diamond
On 8/24/2013 1:38 PM, Darla Rogers wrote:
> I like that; GDA didn't get a chance to show us what they want, but I
> believe I understand this technique, and it makes sense on how it works
> without changing your line of gravel that much or the dog's; the pirouette
> just drove me nuts.
> Darla
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Shanna Stichler
> Sent: Friday, August 23, 2013 4:37 PM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Over here command
>
> OK, let me see if I can explain what I do. This may not be like TSE does
it,
> but I think it is similar.
>
> I work the dog up to the door, of course, and then if the door opens
toward
> us, I'll drop the harness handle and give the dog a little bit of space.
As
> I'm pulling the door toward me, I'm backing up, and the dog is moving with
> me. When I have opened it wide enough, I turn so that my back is actually
> against the door, so I'm basically propping it open with my back, if that
> makes sense. I then just tell the dog "let's go,"
> and she pivots around me and goes through the doorway, still at my left
> side. It sounds incredibly complicated now that I'm writing it down. lol
But
> it's not really. Anyway, once the dog has gone through the door, which I'm
> still holding open with my right hand, I move away, the door closes, and
we
> go. I always let the dog have enough slack in the leash that she is
slightly
> ahead of me when she comes through the doorway, so there is no chance
she'll
> get her tail caught or anything like that. I think I sort of came up with
> this method one day when I had a ton of stuff to carry, and couldn't
figure
> out how to get the dog to switch sides without dropping everything.
>
> Hope this helps, kind of. :D
> Shanna and Diamond
> On 8/23/2013 10:21 AM, Deanna Lewis wrote:
>> Hi Shanna,
>> When you were talking about the doors and the command "over here" it got
> me thinking. You said that the way you did it was like Seeing Eye does,
but
> what is their technique? What do other schools teach for having the dog
move
> to the right side so that you can open a door when the hinges are on the
> left side? So that you can heal the dog through without them getting hit
by
> the door. I hope this makes sense /smiles/.
>> I feel that I am pretty lenient with Pascal, since he is my first dog.
> But, I want to be more strict with my successor dogs. Pascal has very good
> behavior, but he is also a bit spoiled! And he's very stubborn!
>> Deanna and Pascal
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Shanna
>> Stichler
>> Sent: Friday, August 23, 2013 1:40 AM
>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Changing the rules when you get home (was I'm
>> back)
>>
>> With my program dogs, I think I stuck to the school rules at first for
> each one. Once I got to know the dog better, then I deviated from those
> guidelines when I needed to. I have never used GDB's "over here"
>> command, which is when the dog switches sides in order to go through
doors
> opening toward the team. I found that it just wasn't practical for me, so
I
> came up with a method that sounds pretty similar to what TSE uses,
actually.
> :D I also did clicker work with my dogs, and this was before GDB was using
> clicker training in their program. Oh, and I always, always switched their
> food to something I liked better.
>> I think mostly, the schools have all these rules because they want to
> cover every possible eventuality, if that makes sense. Mostly, they're
sound
> enough, but it's fine to come up with different methods that work better
for
> us when we get home. JMO though, of course.
>> Shanna and Diamond
>> On 8/22/2013 3:26 PM, Shannon Dyer wrote:
>>> This is really sound advice, Tracy. While in class, we are in a
controled
> environment. Therefore, the school rules can and do work for us. However,
> once we get home, and our dogs have to function in the environment we're
> used to, things can change.
>>> Like you, I stopped doing the door thing pretty quickly after coming
home
> with each of my dogs. I've also never understood heeling the dog off a
bus.
> Too much of a chance of injury, IMO.
>>> Shannon and Ace
>>> On Aug 22, 2013, at 11:20 AM, "Tracy Carcione" <carcione at access.net>
> wrote:
>>>> I usually change the rules when I get home, if I find the school rules
> aren't working for me.  I say, give the school rules a fair try, because
> they may have some real value, but chuck them if they don't work for me.
>>>> One example is what I think of as the TSE pirouette, a maneuver for
> opening a door and going through it with the dog.  I gave it a fair try at
> the school, but shortly after I got home I went back to the way I'd been
> doing things and totally forgot it.
>>>> Another example is that, many years ago, GDB taught that I should heel
> the dog off of a bus.  I did that, until I stepped into a hole, or smashed
> into a pole right outside the door--I'm sure both these things
> happened--then I decided it was a stupid thing to do and have worked the
dog
> off the bus ever since.
>>>> IMO, while many of the rules I've been taught in class do have value,
> some others seem to have been made up by people with no practical
experience
> in the world I live in, and I will use my good judgement to decide which
are
> which.
>>>> Tracy
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sheila Leigland"
>>>> <sleigland at bresnan.net>
>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, August 21, 2013 3:11 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] I'm back
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> hi lyn well stated. I know a handler that goes out of the way to do
> everything differently than the school trains to do. I do know that some
> things work better for some dogs than others but the principles are still
> the same.
>>>>> On 8/21/2013 11:41 AM, L Gwizdak wrote:
>>>>>> Hi Chantel,
>>>>>> I don't think Jenny said that ALL Pilot grads were idiots. LOL! I've
> seen my share of poor handlers since 1971!  they came from all schools.
> Part of what I've seen is that grads will sometimes decide that the school
> is full of crap when the school asks you to do things in a certain way
when
> you get home with a new dog.  the grad blows off the school and does
things
> as they please - not realizing that the school tells you things because
they
> do really know better what has worked and not worked for grads when they
get
> home.
>>>>>> At TSE, EVERYTHING done has a purpose!  Even the simple things like
> going to the dining room for meals.  At lunch time, all the employees and
> guests have lunch with us during the week.  For us students, they have us
> come in after the staff and guests are already eating and they are seated
> near the door in the first section of the dining room.  We are required to
> work our dogs past these tables with people eating at them.  This
> arrangement sets up a situation that we will find when we go to
restaurants.
> Every day, we are practicing how to work the dogs in a restaurant type
> setting.  In lecture, our dogs are in harness and lying quietly at our
feet.
> This is like if wwe were at a meeting we would go to when we get home.
>>>>>> I do think some schools are more thorouogh in some things than other
> schools.  I see that some other schools do not place a premium on getting
> dogs out of the way when we are sitting in a meeting where we sit at
tables.
> Some of the dog users just let their dogs lie on the floor in the way
where
> they get tripped over.  The Seeing Eye is a real stickler on this issue of
> making sure our dogs are out of the way - under chairs or the table where
> they will not be tripped over.
>>>>>> But many problems are from lax handling by new users AND long-time
> handlers because they don't think about what they are doing.
>>>>>> Lyn and Landon
>>>>>> "Asking who's the man and who's the woman in an LGBT relationship
>>>>>> is like asking which chopstick is the fork" - Unknown
>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chantel Cuddemi"
>>>>>> <jawsgirl87 at gmail.com>
>>>>>> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog
>>>>>> Users'" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, August 20, 2013 11:59 AM
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] I'm back
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Jenny,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I am a Pilot grad, and I went through the achievement walk twice,
>>>>>>> and I had to stay for extra training.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> So, are you saying that all Pilot grads are idiots? Pilot's name
>>>>>>> is engraved on Motley's harness.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Chantel and Motley.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Snow
>>>>>>> White Dove
>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, August 20, 2013 2:20 PM
>>>>>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog
>>>>>>> Users
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] I'm back
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I got Shasta at Pilot.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I was and am astounded by their training of their dogs and their
> students.
>>>>>>> I know they have a fowl reputation.  but when I was there, I saw
why.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> There were a couple of women ther that never should've gotten
>>>>>>> their dogs because they didn't have to go through the full
>>>>>>> achievement walk to determine whether they are fit for a dog.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Basically what I'm trying to say, politely, but truthfully is,
>>>>>>> that the reputation of Pilot is marred only by the idiots they
>>>>>>> let go home with dogs they sshouldn't have giving to people.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> For any questions on the details of this opinion.  Please email
>>>>>>> me off list so as to not clutter the list.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I just have to say this.  Pilot is, in my opinion, being
>>>>>>> considered a less than desirable school ecause of the idiots that
>>>>>>> are seen because they're obviously not suited to have a dog and
> Pilot's name is on that harness.
>>>>>>> No one sees Pilot on the harnesses of those who handle their dogs
>>>>>>> well and just blend in.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Anyway, I'm done gushing over my experiences.  Please don't feel
>>>>>>> offended by anything I might have said.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> If I've overstepped my bounds with the moderators.  Please know
>>>>>>> that apologize.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Jenny
>>>>>>> On Aug 19, 2013, at 7:34 PM, Marsha Drenth <marsha.drenth at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>>>>>>>> Jenny,
>>>>>>>> congratulations!
>>>>>>>> What an interesting name..Where did you get Mr Shasta? I don't
>>>>>>>> remember
>>>>>>> what school you apply to. Sorry.
>>>>>>>> May you both have many years of wonderful working relationship
> together.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Marsha drenth
>>>>>>>> Sent with my IPhone
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Aug 19, 2013, at 7:02 PM, Snow White Dove <jlperdue3 at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Wanted to write to tell you all that I finally did it.  I know
>>>>>>> Cynprobably let you guys know already, but I figured I'd write
> myself.
>>>>>>>>> I came home August 9th with an English Black lab named Shasta.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> He's a wonderful worker and has a great personality, but boy I
>>>>>>>>> wasn't
>>>>>>> sure of the personality part in the beginning or whether I could
>>>>>>> handle him at all.
>>>>>>>>> If he had not been on leash I think he'd have bounced off the
>>>>>>>>> walls all
>>>>>>> on his own steam.
>>>>>>>>> He settled down, and things are pretty cool now, but being 19
>>>>>>>>> months old,
>>>>>>> he's a chewer.  I've had him on leash since I got him, and
>>>>>>> everything was fine till I got home with my brand new leather
>>>>>>> leash which he chewed in half in a perfectly streight line in two
> seconds flat.
>>>>>>>>> Needless to say, I was embarrassed to call the school to order
>>>>>>>>> a new
>>>>>>> leash, but more embarrassed when the head trainer answered the
>>>>>>> phone. He was cool about it, well for him, and said to give him a
>>>>>>> couple of weeks to get more leashes as theyn were out.
>>>>>>>>> I'm hoping they'll just give me a new one, but I don't think
>>>>>>>>> I'll be that
>>>>>>> lucky.
>>>>>>>>> Also, he appears to be a dog, but is a beaver.  He eats
>>>>>>>>> anything wooden
>>>>>>> outside, and I can't seem to break him of it.  I've said no,
>>>>>>> leash corrections, drop it and removed sticks and twigs from his
> mouth.  ug.
>>>>>>>>> Hope to hear from you guys soon.  I just did a mass delete
>>>>>>>>> before I wrote
>>>>>>> you all, so if you wrote me about Shasta, please forgive me and
>>>>>>> send it again.
>>>>>>>>> Have a great day.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Jenny
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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