[nagdu] dog problems

Sun Dec 8 21:15:53 UTC 2013

Just a quick addition to this most excellent post:  I have been successful 
training all five dogs to come off leash which I think is no big deal. 
However, With My dog Payton, if I even said her name, that was eventually 
enough to have her come and sit in the expected position; no "come" command 
was actually necessary.

I also learned that, when she either was out of her hearing range, or a 
little sluggish about responding, I do the British steam train whistle 
through my cupped hands; I don't understand why, but that one has never 
failed.  For some reason, she actually seemed to like that sound.  Maybe her 
puppy raisers did that, I don't know.

Doug: The answer is blowin' in the wind!

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Raven Tolliver" <ravend729 at gmail.com>
To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users" 
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Sunday, December 08, 2013 2:25 PM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] dog problems

: Ty,
: There is no need to get snappy with the people who suggested leave the
: dog alone. This is not bad advice, because let me tell you, a fearful
: dog is, or can turn into, an aggressive dog. This is why it is
: important to work at the dog's pace, and not at yours or Minh's.
: Also, what you're saying is different from what Minh said.
: First, this is about the relationship between your dog and your
: girlfriend. Your dog does not like her. She has admitted that she has
: behaved aggressively toward your dog, yelling, giving collar
: corrections, and speaking sternly, when these things are obviously not
: working and likely making the situation worse.
: Second, raising your voice and yelling are 2 different things. I'm not
: sure if you guys hang out/live together in an apartment or what, but
: unless you are trying to get your dog's attention from across a field,
: trust me, they can hear you perfectly fine. I never raise my voice to
: call my dog, or any of the dogs I have trained. It is not necessary.
: Bottom line: drop the yelling.
: Third, you said that your dogs are comfortable enough to trust the
: both of you. But Minh expressed the fact that your dog is not
: comfortable around her. If the dog is avoiding her, not coming to her
: at all unless she has a treat, hides from her, and yelps when she
: plays with him, he does not trust her, he fears her. There could be
: some underlying health issue as someone suggested; anything is
: possible. But frankly, I believe the dog is afraid of her, and you
: need to be very considerate of your dog's feelings, and Minh needs to
: change the way she behaves toward your dog.
: Now, training a dog to come when called is very hard. A surprising
: number of people believe this is a basic, simple behavior/cue to
: train, but it really isn't. There are two things that people do
: frequently that hinder the dog's learning this behavior.
: 1. People often punish their dogs when they come to them. I've seen it
: at the park when a woman has to call her dog a bunch of times, and
: when he finally comes to her, she is yelling at him and gripping his
: collar up. Any kind of behavior like this lessens the chances of your
: dog coming to you when you call him. If you have to call your dog
: twenty-five times, you still don't punish them when they come to you.
: You rain praise upon them as if they just ended world hunger so that
: they associate coming to you with good things.
: 2. Many people give in to their dogs, and after getting tired of
: calling them, they just go to get/find the dog. When people do this,
: they are communicating to their dog that the dog does not have to come
: because their owner will go get them anyway.
: You train that dog to come to you with a clicker and a toy, or a bag
: of treats. Get your dog's attention with the toy, and of course, he
: will come. Click! Give 'em the toy. Let 'em play for a minute or so,
: then cue him to give the toy back with whatever cue you use--"drop it"
: or the like. Repeat this several times. Make it a game, and make it
: fun. Whenever he comes to you to get the toy, click! then give it to
: 'em. Start introducing the cue "come," "here," or whatever. The moment
: he comes to you, say "come," click! give the toy. repeat. Then do it
: all without the toy. If your dog won't pay attention to you without
: it, do more than just call his name--snap your fingers, tap your
: thigh, whatever.
: Many people do not want to do training sessions for something like
: coming when called, but training sessions like this are what will
: improve the reliability, and it's playtime! Who would say no to that?
: After several days of training sessions, get Minh involved. If the dog
: decides not to come to her, do not allow her to coax or cue him to do
: so. If he is not willing to approach her, even if she has a toy, you
: must be the one to reassure him. This might take several days or a
: couple weeks. You might have to use treats to draw him close to her,
: and to reward him if he interacts with her in a positive way at all.
: Use the advice in my other email as well.
: Good luck.
: Raven
:
: On 12/8/13, Littlefield, Tyler <tyler at tysdomain.com> wrote:
: > Hello all:
: > First, for the one-liner "leave the dog alone," thanks but no thanks for
: > the advice. Minh was looking for some thought and feedback. For those of
: > you who responded (raven, nicole et al), thanks also for your responses.
: > I have a few comments I want to add because I'm interested in people's
: > actual feedback regarding them.
: >
: > first, O'Mally and Minh got to know each other when Viva was not
: > around--I had O'Mally before Minh got Viva. It seems that his behavior
: > has changed a bit after Viva came around and she started getting
: > attention from both of us. We do pretty much give them equal
: > attention--sometimes O'Mally more than Viva or Viva more than O'Mally,
: > but it sort of all equals out. I have no problem what-so-ever with Minh
: > calling O'Mally or me calling Viva. I think they are both comfortable
: > enough with us to trust us. I guess others prefer to keep their dogs
: > separate, but this seems like mostly personal preference. Regardless,
: > here's what I'm thinking with O'Mally.
: >
: > First, I understand yelling is a bit of an issue. Neither of us scream
: > at either of our guides, but a raised voice sometimes seems like it's
: > useful for getting attention. It's much preferable to grabbing their
: > collar or something, so I'd like to use that if it works. It doesn't
: > seem to scare them, it's just like a way to get them to actually focus
: > or pay attention.
: >
: > Second, I think part of this is stemming from a bit of jealousy on both
: > viva and O'mally's parts. I've noticed they tend to get irritated at
: > each other sometimes, which I generally try to take care of, but I'm not
: > really sure how to do much with that. I assume it'll happen regardless,
: > but it seems to be a contributing factor.
: >
: > Finally, I appreciate all the advice given thus far on alternative ways
: > for us to get O'mally to come when she calls. There have been times when
: > I have to leave O'Mally with Minh or Viva has stayed with me. I believe
: > if I am going to do that, O'mally needs to be comfortable with her and
: > she needs to be able to call him, knowing 100% sure or at least as close
: > to 100% as you can get with a dog that he will come. It may be that she
: > actually really needs O'Mally to come to her, which leads me into
: > another point. I have also noticed that sometimes when I call O'mally he
: > thumps his tail at me rather than coming. I don't know if it is his way
: > of saying "I'm right here," but I'd much prefer he just came. It's not
: > all that often, but it happens sometimes. Any advice on how to work that
: > out would be awesome.
: >
: > Thanks,
: >
: > --
: > Take care,
: > Ty
: > http://tds-solutions.net
: > He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he 
that
: > dares not reason is a slave.
: >
: >
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: >
:
:
: -- 
: Raven
:
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