[nagdu] Wistling was ...

Sun Dec 8 22:32:40 UTC 2013

Nicole, the sound is not a whistle in the truest sense, not like one of 
those ear-splitting shrieks some folks do with the fingers which I've never 
mastered, more like a hoot owl singing soprano, like blowing across the top 
of a partially empty beer bottle (or pop--I hate pop!)

Doug: 20,000 dogs came running when I whistled "Oh come all ye faithful"

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Nicole Torcolini" <ntorcolini at wavecable.com>
To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'" 
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Sunday, December 08, 2013 3:59 PM
Subject: [nagdu] Wistling was ...

: This actually does not surprise me. I think that, for some weird reason,
: dogs like it when people whistle . I have read stories in which hunting 
dogs
: were trained to come when someone whistled, even if it was a complete
: stranger or someone who the dog absolutely hated.
:
: -----Original Message-----
: From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Doug Parisian
: Sent: Sunday, December 08, 2013 1:16 PM
: To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
: Subject: Re: [nagdu] dog problems
:
: Just a quick addition to this most excellent post:  I have been successful
: training all five dogs to come off leash which I think is no big deal.
: However, With My dog Payton, if I even said her name, that was eventually
: enough to have her come and sit in the expected position; no "come" 
command
: was actually necessary.
:
: I also learned that, when she either was out of her hearing range, or a
: little sluggish about responding, I do the British steam train whistle
: through my cupped hands; I don't understand why, but that one has never
: failed.  For some reason, she actually seemed to like that sound.  Maybe 
her
: puppy raisers did that, I don't know.
:
: Doug: The answer is blowin' in the wind!
:
: ----- Original Message -----
: From: "Raven Tolliver" <ravend729 at gmail.com>
: To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
: <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
: Sent: Sunday, December 08, 2013 2:25 PM
: Subject: Re: [nagdu] dog problems
:
:
:: Ty,
:: There is no need to get snappy with the people who suggested leave the
:: dog alone. This is not bad advice, because let me tell you, a fearful
:: dog is, or can turn into, an aggressive dog. This is why it is
:: important to work at the dog's pace, and not at yours or Minh's.
:: Also, what you're saying is different from what Minh said.
:: First, this is about the relationship between your dog and your
:: girlfriend. Your dog does not like her. She has admitted that she has
:: behaved aggressively toward your dog, yelling, giving collar
:: corrections, and speaking sternly, when these things are obviously not
:: working and likely making the situation worse.
:: Second, raising your voice and yelling are 2 different things. I'm not
:: sure if you guys hang out/live together in an apartment or what, but
:: unless you are trying to get your dog's attention from across a field,
:: trust me, they can hear you perfectly fine. I never raise my voice to
:: call my dog, or any of the dogs I have trained. It is not necessary.
:: Bottom line: drop the yelling.
:: Third, you said that your dogs are comfortable enough to trust the
:: both of you. But Minh expressed the fact that your dog is not
:: comfortable around her. If the dog is avoiding her, not coming to her
:: at all unless she has a treat, hides from her, and yelps when she
:: plays with him, he does not trust her, he fears her. There could be
:: some underlying health issue as someone suggested; anything is
:: possible. But frankly, I believe the dog is afraid of her, and you
:: need to be very considerate of your dog's feelings, and Minh needs to
:: change the way she behaves toward your dog.
:: Now, training a dog to come when called is very hard. A surprising
:: number of people believe this is a basic, simple behavior/cue to
:: train, but it really isn't. There are two things that people do
:: frequently that hinder the dog's learning this behavior.
:: 1. People often punish their dogs when they come to them. I've seen it
:: at the park when a woman has to call her dog a bunch of times, and
:: when he finally comes to her, she is yelling at him and gripping his
:: collar up. Any kind of behavior like this lessens the chances of your
:: dog coming to you when you call him. If you have to call your dog
:: twenty-five times, you still don't punish them when they come to you.
:: You rain praise upon them as if they just ended world hunger so that
:: they associate coming to you with good things.
:: 2. Many people give in to their dogs, and after getting tired of
:: calling them, they just go to get/find the dog. When people do this,
:: they are communicating to their dog that the dog does not have to come
:: because their owner will go get them anyway.
:: You train that dog to come to you with a clicker and a toy, or a bag
:: of treats. Get your dog's attention with the toy, and of course, he
:: will come. Click! Give 'em the toy. Let 'em play for a minute or so,
:: then cue him to give the toy back with whatever cue you use--"drop it"
:: or the like. Repeat this several times. Make it a game, and make it
:: fun. Whenever he comes to you to get the toy, click! then give it to
:: 'em. Start introducing the cue "come," "here," or whatever. The moment
:: he comes to you, say "come," click! give the toy. repeat. Then do it
:: all without the toy. If your dog won't pay attention to you without
:: it, do more than just call his name--snap your fingers, tap your
:: thigh, whatever.
:: Many people do not want to do training sessions for something like
:: coming when called, but training sessions like this are what will
:: improve the reliability, and it's playtime! Who would say no to that?
:: After several days of training sessions, get Minh involved. If the dog
:: decides not to come to her, do not allow her to coax or cue him to do
:: so. If he is not willing to approach her, even if she has a toy, you
:: must be the one to reassure him. This might take several days or a
:: couple weeks. You might have to use treats to draw him close to her,
:: and to reward him if he interacts with her in a positive way at all.
:: Use the advice in my other email as well.
:: Good luck.
:: Raven
::
:: On 12/8/13, Littlefield, Tyler <tyler at tysdomain.com> wrote:
:: > Hello all:
:: > First, for the one-liner "leave the dog alone," thanks but no thanks 
for
:: > the advice. Minh was looking for some thought and feedback. For those 
of
:: > you who responded (raven, nicole et al), thanks also for your 
responses.
:: > I have a few comments I want to add because I'm interested in people's
:: > actual feedback regarding them.
:: >
:: > first, O'Mally and Minh got to know each other when Viva was not
:: > around--I had O'Mally before Minh got Viva. It seems that his behavior
:: > has changed a bit after Viva came around and she started getting
:: > attention from both of us. We do pretty much give them equal
:: > attention--sometimes O'Mally more than Viva or Viva more than O'Mally,
:: > but it sort of all equals out. I have no problem what-so-ever with Minh
:: > calling O'Mally or me calling Viva. I think they are both comfortable
:: > enough with us to trust us. I guess others prefer to keep their dogs
:: > separate, but this seems like mostly personal preference. Regardless,
:: > here's what I'm thinking with O'Mally.
:: >
:: > First, I understand yelling is a bit of an issue. Neither of us scream
:: > at either of our guides, but a raised voice sometimes seems like it's
:: > useful for getting attention. It's much preferable to grabbing their
:: > collar or something, so I'd like to use that if it works. It doesn't
:: > seem to scare them, it's just like a way to get them to actually focus
:: > or pay attention.
:: >
:: > Second, I think part of this is stemming from a bit of jealousy on both
:: > viva and O'mally's parts. I've noticed they tend to get irritated at
:: > each other sometimes, which I generally try to take care of, but I'm 
not
:: > really sure how to do much with that. I assume it'll happen regardless,
:: > but it seems to be a contributing factor.
:: >
:: > Finally, I appreciate all the advice given thus far on alternative ways
:: > for us to get O'mally to come when she calls. There have been times 
when
:: > I have to leave O'Mally with Minh or Viva has stayed with me. I believe
:: > if I am going to do that, O'mally needs to be comfortable with her and
:: > she needs to be able to call him, knowing 100% sure or at least as 
close
:: > to 100% as you can get with a dog that he will come. It may be that she
:: > actually really needs O'Mally to come to her, which leads me into
:: > another point. I have also noticed that sometimes when I call O'mally 
he
:: > thumps his tail at me rather than coming. I don't know if it is his way
:: > of saying "I'm right here," but I'd much prefer he just came. It's not
:: > all that often, but it happens sometimes. Any advice on how to work 
that
:: > out would be awesome.
:: >
:: > Thanks,
:: >
:: > --
:: > Take care,
:: > Ty
:: > http://tds-solutions.net
:: > He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he
: that
:: > dares not reason is a slave.
:: >
:: >
:: > _______________________________________________
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:: >
::
::
:: -- 
:: Raven
::
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