[nagdu] control was Dog problems

[Sherrill O'Brien]

Julie,

Is the material you're reading by Clothier available online, on BookShare,
or another accessible format? The ideas sound intriguing, and possibly
useful for me and Fallon, my good but people addicted guide.

Sherrill

-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org]On Behalf Of Julie J
Sent: Wednesday, December 18, 2013 3:13 PM
To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
Subject: Re: [nagdu] control was Dog problems


Are any of you familiar with Suzanne Clothier?  I've been reading some of
her ideas lately and they make a lot of sense to me.  She calls her style of
dog training relationship based.  She doessn't press a certain type of
collar or insist that you never use corrections.  She does put the
relationship first.  She looks at why a dog is doing what it's doing and
offers solutions that will help the dog get what it needs within the realm
of what is acceptable to the humans.  She makes a lot of sense to me.

I was just at the bank a few minutes ago.  Monty was in a down stay next to
me, next to the counter.  He didn't get up, but he started sniffing the
rug...like really sniffing...like trying to vacuum the carpet with his
nostrils.  I don't think he was tring to be horrid or defiant or any other
negative thing.  I think there was something pretty interesting on the rug
that he was intensely interested in.  Just like when I walk past a cafe and
breth a little more deeply because the fried chicken does smell really
awesome right before lunch.  Anyway I could have given Monty a collar
correction or told him to leave it, but instead I bent down and patted him
on the top of the head.  It worked, he ceased trying to hoover the rug
because I got my point across.

Maybe more so than the tools we choose to use is the mindset that governs
the use of those tools.  I chose to pat Monty because I felt that was the
most respectful way of helping him to remember we are not at home.  Honestly
I could have given the leash a tug and conveyed the same message.
Conversely I could have patted him on the head rudely or given him a classic
collar correction to demonstrate my displeasure with his behavior.

I want our relationship to be based on respect and support, not fear and
dominance.    If I goofed up and forgot my manners in public, I know I'd
appreciate someone patting my arm and suggesting an alternative, rather than
making a scenne about it.

I don't know.  It's just something I've been thinking about.  I haven't
sorted out all my thoughts and I fully acknowledge that I may be way off.

Julie


Sent from my iPad

> On Dec 18, 2013, at 1:07 PM, "Tracy Carcione" <carcione at access.net> wrote:
>
> Hi Raven.
> I see your point.  But stopping to rework is a kind of correction.
> Actually, my previous dog used to want to stop after every up-curb in the
City and get a bit of a pat.  She found it very rewarding. When I did it
with Ben, a trainer told me that Ben was the kind of dog who saw stopping as
unrewarding, and boogying down the road as a reward, so now I give him a
quick pat and Good Boy while we keep moseying.
>
> Re sniffing, while I suppose that for a casual sniff, my speaking to Ben
and telling him Touch might get his attention.  Or it might not.
> Your approach is interesting, and worth some thought, but mine has worked
for me for over 30 years, and I'm not too likely to just toss it in favor of
something else, just for a lark.
> Tracy
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Raven Tolliver" <ravend729 at gmail.com>
> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, December 18, 2013 1:31 PM
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] control was Dog problems
>
>
>> Tracy,
>> That is what my school taught, and still teaches to my knowledge. This
>> is my issue with that approach: why even give the correction when you
>> can just cue your dog to do something different? For instance, let's
>> say my dog runs a curb. GEB taught me to correct, rework, and praise
>> for a successful reworking. But why even correct? If I skip the
>> correction, heel him to my side, and rework the error, my dog still
>> gets the same information. You botched that one, so let's do it again,
>> the right way this time.
>> For another example, let's say I'm standing in line and my dog is
>> sniffing the person in front of me. Certain trainers might say: "give
>> a correction, tell him to sit, then praise." But why give a
>> correction? Why not just hold out my fist and say: "Kipling, touch!"
>> Then praise or treat him for obeying. I can skip the correction step
>> and still effectively communicate to my dog to stop doing that and to
>> do something else. See what I mean? I do not have to correct my dog,
>> or any dog, for the naughty behavior. I simply note the behavior, and

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