[nagdu] Leader and Lions was people taking pictures
Larry D. Keeler
lkeeler at comcast.net
Fri Feb 15 15:44:59 UTC 2013
I had a similar experience with the Lions in Virginia. Although then, I
didn't have a dog. Instead, the focus was on the blindness. I was involved
in a summer of marine science and was invited to a Lions group. I know that
the Lions are interested in helping folks but the blindness thing way
upstaged the fact that I really was getting involved in science not just as
a curiosity but also hopefully for a living. They also had a small raffle
and as the only blind person there, I won! Seemed sort of suspicious!
----- Original Message -----
From: "Julie J." <julielj at neb.rr.com>
To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, February 15, 2013 9:01 AM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Leader and Lions was people taking pictures
> Steve,
>
> When I attended a Lions leadership conference this past summer I had a
> pretty negative experience. Of course people would ask about my guide,
> and being the person I am, I always answer honestly. They were probably
> thinking because I was a member of the Lions that of course I would have a
> Leader dog. When they found out that I had owner trained I'd get a
> variety of responses from shock to confusion to incredulity. I have been
> told from a Lion and this is a quote, "You know we could have gotten a
> guide for you. You didn't have to do all that work." said in a tone
> indicating their disapproval with my choice. I've gotten the repeated
> impression from a number of Lions that if you don't go to Leader, you've
> made a bad choice.
>
> I felt like I was the token blind person at this event and not really
> valued at all as an individual. There was very little interest in getting
> to know me as a person, it was all about the dog all the time. I'm okay
> with talking about the dog, but after a couple minutes of that I'm ready
> to move on to other things, ideas or interests that we might share. The
> final straw was at the end when they were taking pictures of the groups.
> We were told to arrange ourselves with the tallest people in the back,
> shorter people in the front. So after consulting the person next to me
> and using my own perceptions I stood in the back row. I was told quite
> bluntly that I needed to move to the front so they could get a good
> picture of the dog. I refused and this created a large problem. I don't
> think anyone had told that woman no before.
>
> I have left the Lions. I just can't do it. I know there are good people
> in the lions, people that respect others, people that genuinely want to do
> good things, people that want to make the world a better place. It's
> really too bad that there are enough people that are disrespectful,
> egotistical and elitist that it ruined it for me.
>
> I feel like I have to choose to spend my time and energy in pursuits that
> strengthen me as a person while a the same time allowing me to share my
> talents with the world. The Lions is not that place for me. I
> understand that it is for others and I'm not trying to discount that. I'm
> also not saying that the Lions as an organization is bad. I am saying
> that there are people within the Lions that ruined it for me.
>
> Julie
>
>
>
>
>
> On 2/15/2013 5:38 AM, Steven Johnson wrote:
>> Eve, do you know why this actually might be, or what the actual
>> connection
>> is in regards to her stance? Leader Dog was actually formed in 1938 by 3
>> Lion members, and became a formal organization in 1939. It is still the
>> only guide dog organization or for that matter, service dog organization
>> in
>> the world founded by Lion's. Many Lion's still have this philosophy.
>> Leader Dog has a Board specifically made up of Lion members, and receives
>> approximately 20% of their funding from the Lion's. Leader Dog is the
>> longest funded service through the Lion's. I applaud her past patronage
>> as
>> a Lion and Leader Dog handler.
>>
>> Steve
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of d m gina
>> Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2013 9:13 PM
>> To: nagdu at nfbnet.org
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] people taking pictures of dog or wanting to take
>> pictures of your dog
>>
>> this lady only wanted the lions to work with leader dogs, no other
>> school.
>> She didn't want anyone to be better than she was with her dog.
>> She has passed on now, so I don't have to worry.
>> I will keep after the lions to get us set up for December.
>> So we know when this will happen, and how can we help to pull it off.
>> Our part that is.
>> I knew I was out and about threw out the city and folks would see me.
>> Either at the mall or wall mart, any place like that.
>> I don't have your email address, it doesn't show up.
>> So I am sure I am past my five messages.
>> Original message:
>>> Ummm Dar,
>>> This lady is a blind Lion with a guide dog but she doesn't want any
>>> other guide dog users in the parade - did I hear this right?? If so,
>>> what is that all about? She can't control her dog?
>>> That reminds me about the time I was at an event in Balboa Park were
>>> there wwere alot of dogs and a mini horse there. The police were
>>> doing a police dog demonstration - the dog ran to bite the man in the
>>> padded suit to show how a police dog apprehends a criminal who is
>>> trying to flee. I had my guide dog with me and I had stopped to
>>> watch. The cop actually told me to move on because my dog was a
>>> distraction to the police dog! I said that maybe he needs to teach
>>> his dog to work with distractions like mine was. My dog was able to
>>> work
>> well with all the distractions aroound at that event.
>>> the cop had nothing to say to coounter what i said to him. Ballsy me!
>>> Hey, I'd go to the parade anyway and tell that woman to do some
>>> refresher in distraction work with her dog!
>>> Lyn and Landon
>>> "Asking who's the man and who's the woman in an LGBT relationship is
>>> like asking which chopstick is the fork" - Unknown
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "d m gina"<dmgina at samobile.net>
>>> To:<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2013 6:11 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] people taking pictures of dog or wanting to take
>>> pictures of your dog
>>
>>>> yes we had a lady who was in the parade with her dog.
>>>> She didn't want anyone else to come.
>>>> Especially with a dog.
>>>> She was a lion.
>>>> So we have friends who are lions where we could set it up.
>>>> I will ask early so we can get it started.
>>>> Original message:
>>>>> Hi Dar,
>>>>> To be in a parade, one must be associated with a group who is in the
>>>>> parade.
>>>>> I march in our LGBT Pride parade with a group I belong to -
>>>>> actually, I'd have to split myself in twos or threes to march in all
>>>>> the groups I belong to that are contingents in the parade! LOL!
>>>>> Landon and I are also in our neighborhoood Christmas Toyland Parade
>>>>> as part of our contingent from our Blind Community Center. We have
>>>>> our Center's bus in it with the people who can't walk but several of
>>>>> our members with guide dogs do walk in the parade.
>>>>> We decorate our dogs in holiday collars. Landon has learned how to
>>>>> walk in the street in a parade from the many street demonstrations
>>>>> we've been in over the years! He has to teach the other guide dogs
>>>>> who NEVER walk in the street except for making street crossings.
>>>>> LOL! We do have sighted help in helping us to keep in our
>>>>> contingent, tell us when to stop, turn, and to go after we stop to
>>>>> let the contingents to maintain proper spacing that keeps the parade
>>>>> moving smoothly along. Some people just go sighted guide and heel
>>>>> their dogs.
>>>>> For you, join a group that marches in your holiday parade and maybe
>>>>> you can march or be on a float in it. It's alot of fun and people
>>>>> enjoy seeing guide and other service dogs in parades. Remember that
>>>>> street pavement is usually hotter than regular sidewalks. Streets
>>>>> are blacktop which sucks in the heat and most sidewalks are white
>>>>> concrete which repells some of the heat - depends on time of year
>>>>> and location.
>>>>> For me to determine when I need to put Landon's booties on, I will
>>>>> place my palm flat on the street. If I go, "Yow!" and pull my hand
>>>>> off in only seconds, it is bootie time! If I can keep my hand there
>>>>> as long as I want to keep it there without discomfort, well, Landon
>>>>> can go barefoot.
>>>>> People
>>>>> want to take Landon's picture in his booties is mainly because most
>>>>> people never give a hot pavement a thought when they briong their
>>>>> dogs out in parades - this happens in the Pride parade and street
>>>>> fairs because these are held in the middle of our summer heat with
>>>>> the strongest sunshine.
>>>>> Countless people have come up to me to thank me for putting booties
>>>>> on my dog and they tell me about the poor dogs who has less than
>>>>> attentive owners.
>>>>> Those dogs are picking up each foot over and over because their pads
>>>>> are burning on the blacktop! Poor doggies!
>>>>> Lyn and Landon
>>>>> "Asking who's the man and who's the woman in an LGBT relationship is
>>>>> like asking which chopstick is the fork" - Unknown
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: "d m gina"<dmgina at samobile.net>
>>>>> To:<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Sent: Sunday, February 10, 2013 2:32 PM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] people taking pictures of dog or wanting to
>>>>> take pictures of your dog
>>
>>>>>> I need to work with my dog with his booties.
>>>>>> That is a swell idea in a parade to have him wear them.
>>>>>> I would love to see us in the Christmas parade this year.
>>>>>> How far advanced do you need to plan for this?
>>>>>> Original message:
>>>>>>> Hi Eve,
>>>>>>> I can see what you mean about the labels, "partials or sighteds"
>>>>>>> and "Totals" and the stigmas attached to them. This sucks but is
>> reality.
>>>>>>> It
>>>>>>> is like in the Black community light skinned or dark skinned and
>>>>>>> the stigma is more on the dark skinned as the totals are looked
>>>>>>> upon as less in the blind community. On both couonts it is wrong!
>>>>>>> You should NEVER play second fiddle to anyone else just because
>>>>>>> they may possess more or full eyesight. I've seen this behavior
>>>>>>> mainly in the blind schools where some people feel the need to
>>>>>>> dump on someone else - well, the totals. Partials have some sight
>>>>>>> so they would be in the "sighted camp"
>>>>>>> even though partials get crap from both sides - fully sighted
>>>>>>> (you're not really blind - you're faking it!) or totals who may
>>>>>>> begrudge partials for having some sighted privilege. But we all -
>>>>>>> totals and partials - really get the crap from society that
>>>>>>> decides what we can or can't do based on misconceptions, fear, and
>>>>>>> plain old bigotry rather than going to the experts - those of us
>>>>>>> with the blindness.
>>>>>>> The truth is that we are all blind and we all have alot of
>>>>>>> challenges although they may vary. I have friends who are fully
>>>>>>> sighted, partially sighted, and totally blind - makes no
>>>>>>> difference to me. I judge them on what kind of person they are.
>>>>>>> Yeah, I'm a low partial - I use a guide dog.
>>>>>>> I used to be a high partial when I was a teenager and I rode my
>>>>>>> bike all over town. I agree, we should junk the labels and just
>>>>>>> become people with some extra issues to be dealt with.
>>>>>>> Oh yeah, I don't care who takes my dog's picture. Landon's wound
>>>>>>> up on people's Facebook! They all ask me first. Landon was doing
>>>>>>> something cute like lie with his head up and his front legs
>>>>>>> crossed like he was royalty!
>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>> saw the pix and thought they were very cute. They didn't take my
>>>>>>> picture - just the dog. The people who took the pix then asked me
>>>>>>> about guide dogs and I used it as a learning/teaching moment. I
>>>>>>> have some of these cute pix on my own Facebook timeline and i
>>>>>>> don't mind if my FB friends share them.
>>>>>>> Many of these friends love Landon! LOL! Oh, who knows how many
>>>>>>> pix get taken of Landon with his booties on as we march in the
>>>>>>> Pride Parade!
>>>>>>> Maybe
>>>>>>> seeing Landon in booties will remind them to use booties on their
>>>>>>> own dogs on hot pavement. One never knows.
>>>>>>> Take care,
>>>>>>> Lyn and Landon
>>
>>>>>>> "Asking who's the man and who's the woman in an LGBT relationship
>>>>>>> is like asking which chopstick is the fork" - Unknown
>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>> From: "Eve Sanchez"<celticyaya at gmail.com>
>>>>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>>>>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, February 09, 2013 6:02 PM
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] people taking pictures of dog or wanting to
>>>>>>> take pictures of your dog
>>
>>>>>>>> I have no problem with my dog getting her picture taken as long
>>>>>>>> as no one talks to her and I am not in the picture without
>>>>>>>> knowing. I may be having a fat day or not have my makeup on or
>>>>>>>> something. My dog is not as vain.
>>>>>>>> What
>>>>>>>> does piss me off, in a side note, is the designation between
>>>>>>>> sighted and totals. This always seems to come from the 'total' as
>>>>>>>> they like to call themselves as seems to be a type of prejudice
>>>>>>>> in that they feel they are more disabled or more blind than
>>>>>>>> others. Sorry to vent on this, but it really pisses me off and I
>>>>>>>> know I am not the only one who feels this way though many people
>>>>>>>> will not say so. I would appreciate the terms going away. Thanks
>>>>>>>> for the opportunity to get my word out. Eve
>>>>>>>> On Sat, Feb 9, 2013 at 1:36 PM, cheryl echevarria
>>>>>>>> <cherylandmaxx at hotmail.com
>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>
>>>>>>>>> Yes I am also with Lion International and the Brentwood Chamber
>>>>>>>>> of Commerce and other Travel Agent Organizations.
>>>>>>>>> But I do not let anyone come up to me and take a picture of me
>>>>>>>>> or Maxx.
>>>>>>>>> These are different situations.
>>>>>>>>> Have a great day to all. Bright and sunny after the Blizzard. Um
>>>>>>>>> isn't Nemo a fish and Captain Nemo for 20,000 leagues under the
>>>>>>>>> sea, I just don't know where they get the names of these storms
>>>>>>>>> from.
>>>>>>>>> Lol.
>>>>>>>>> Disabled Entrepreneur of the Year 2012 of NY State Leading the
>>>>>>>>> Way in Independent Travel!SNG Certified - Accessible Travel
>>>>>>>>> Advocate!Cheryl Echevarria, Ownerhttp://
>>>>>>>>> www.echevarriatravel.com631-456-5394reservations at echevarriatrave
>>>>>>>>> l.comhttp://www.echevarriatravel.wordpress.com2012
>>>>>>>>> Norwegian Cruise Line University Advisory Board Member.
>>>>>>>>> Affiliated as an independent contractor with Montrose TravelCST
>>>>>>>>> - #1018299-10Echevarria Travel and proud member of the National
>>>>>>>>> Federation of the Blind will be holding a year round fundraiser
>>>>>>>>> for the http://www.NFBNY.org<http://www.nfbny.org/> after
>>>>>>>>> Hurricane Sandy and other resources. Any vacation package booked
>>>>>>>>> between November 6 2012-November 6, 2013 and vacation must be
>>>>>>>>> traveled no later than
>>>>>>>>> 12/30/2014 a percentage of my earnings will go to the affiliate.
>>>>>>>>> Also
>>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>> you book a Sandals for couples or Beaches for families and
>>>>>>>>> friends resorts vacation, $100.00 per booking will go to the
>>>>>>>>> affiliate as well. You do not need to be a member of the
>>>>>>>>> NFB.org, just book through us.
>>
>>>>>>>>>> From: lkeeler at comcast.net
>>>>>>>>>> To: nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>> Date: Sat, 9 Feb 2013 16:22:35 -0500
>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] people taking pictures of dog or wanting
>>>>>>>>>> to take
>>>>>>>>> pictures of your dog
>>>>>>>>>> Cheryl, sometimes I do and sometimes I don't. I have a picture
>>>>>>>>>> of Holly
>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>> I with the bishop. I also have a couple with the Knights of
>>>>>>>>>> Columbus.
>>>>>>>>> AIn
>>>>>>>>>> these cases, I allowed it to prove that these organizations
>>>>>>>>>> will admit
>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>> approve of blind folks and there service animals.
>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>>> From: "cheryl echevarria"<cherylandmaxx at hotmail.com>
>>>>>>>>>> To: "nagdu"<nagdu at nfbnet.org>; "nyagdu"<nyagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, February 09, 2013 12:05 PM
>>>>>>>>>> Subject: [nagdu] people taking pictures of dog or wanting to
>>>>>>>>>> take
>>>>>>>>> pictures
>>>>>>>>>> of your dog
>>
>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Good morning everyone:
>>>>>>>>>>> Nelson is busy shoveling the snow outside from Nemo, Blizzard
>> 2013.
>>>>>>>>>>> Anyway, while I was in Washington, D.C. this past week with
>>>>>>>>>>> some of
>>>>>>>>> you. I
>>>>>>>>>>> was talking with some members of the Utah Chapter and a woman,
>>>>>>>>>>> who was
>>>>>>>>> not
>>>>>>>>>>> a member of the NFB, a guest in the hotel asked me if she
>>>>>>>>>>> could take a picture of Maxx.
>>>>>>>>>>> I said no. She asked me why. Well first I said, "Because I do
>>>>>>>>>>> not want
>>>>>>>>> my
>>>>>>>>>>> dog all over social media from strangers that I do not know",
>>>>>>>>>>> she
>>>>>>>>> became
>>>>>>>>>>> quite obnoxious about it. I put it to her this way. I said are
>>>>>>>>>>> you a parent, she said yes. Well would you like any of your
>>>>>>>>>>> family or
>>>>>>>>> children
>>>>>>>>>>> to have there pictures taken by strangers posted all over the
>>>>>>>>>>> internet.
>>>>>>>>>>> That is not right.
>>>>>>>>>>> Then she got it and understood.
>>>>>>>>>>> Have you had the same issues. Sometime someone tells me that
>>>>>>>>>>> they took
>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>> picture of me and the dog, and I get upset, only because they
>>>>>>>>>>> didn't
>>>>>>>>> ask
>>>>>>>>>>> and the same issue. I should be the one to post pictures and
>>>>>>>>>>> videos of
>>>>>>>>> me
>>>>>>>>>>> and maxx if I want, but not strangers.
>>>>>>>>>>> Cheryl
>>>>>>>>>>> Disabled Entrepreneur of the Year 2012 of NY State Leading the
>>>>>>>>>>> Way in Independent Travel!SNG Certified - Accessible Travel
>>>>>>>>>>> Advocate!Cheryl Echevarria,
>>>>>>>>>>> Ownerhttp://www.echevarriatravel.com631-456-5394reservations
>>>>>>>>> @echevarriatravel.comhttp://www.echevarriatravel.wordpress.com20
>>>>>>>>> 12
>>>>>>>>>>> Norwegian Cruise Line University Advisory Board Member.
>>>>>>>>>>> Affiliated as an independent contractor with Montrose
>>>>>>>>>>> TravelCST - #1018299-10Echevarria Travel and proud member of
>>>>>>>>>>> the National
>>>>>>>>> Federation
>>>>>>>>>>> of the Blind will be holding a year round fundraiser for the
>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.NFBNY.org<http://www.nfbny.org/> after Hurricane
>>>>>>>>>>> Sandy
>>>>>>>>> and other resources. Any
>>>>>>>>>>> vacation package booked between November 6 2012-November 6,
>>>>>>>>>>> 2013 and vacation must be traveled no later than 12/30/2014 a
>>>>>>>>>>> percentage of my earnings will go to the affiliate. Also is
>>>>>>>>>>> you book a Sandals for
>>>>>>>>> couples
>>>>>>>>>>> or Beaches for families and friends resorts vacation, $100.00
>>>>>>>>>>> per
>>>>>>>>> booking
>>>>>>>>>>> will go to the affiliate as well. You do not need to be a
>>>>>>>>>>> member of
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>> NFB.org, just book through us.
>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>> nagdu mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>>>>>>>> info for
>>>>>>>>>>> nagdu:
>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/lkeeler%40com
>>>>>>>>> cast.net
>>
>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>> nagdu mailing list
>>>>>>>>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>>>>>>> info for
>>>>>>>>> nagdu:
>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/cherylandmaxx
>>>>>>>>> %40hotmail.com
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> nagdu mailing list
>>>>>>>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>>>>>> info for
>>>>>>>>> nagdu:
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>>>>>>>>> gmail.com
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> nagdu mailing list
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>>>>>>>> 40cox.net
>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>> le.net
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> --Dar
>>>>>> skype: dmgina23
>>>>>> FB: dmgina
>>>>>> www.twitter.com/dmgina
>>>>>> every saint has a past
>>>>>> every sinner has a future
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nagdu mailing list
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>>>>>> cox.net
>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>> --
>>>> --Dar
>>>> skype: dmgina23
>>>> FB: dmgina
>>>> www.twitter.com/dmgina
>>>> every saint has a past
>>>> every sinner has a future
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nagdu mailing list
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>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nagdu mailing list
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>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nagdu:
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>>> et
>> --
>> --Dar
>> skype: dmgina23
>> FB: dmgina
>> www.twitter.com/dmgina
>> every saint has a past
>> every sinner has a future
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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