[nagdu] guide dogs in seminary

Lyn Gwizdak linda.gwizdak at cox.net
Sun Feb 17 21:29:39 UTC 2013 

I've had guide dogs since 1973 and, really, I've had only a few incidences 
where I was kicked out of someplace because I had a guide dog.  Then again, 
I have lived in mostly large cities.  Even when I lived in a real small 
rural town for foour years, I had little troouble. Maybe because most people 
in town had horses and dogs themselves.  I used to go to my nieces' schools 
and talked to their classes about blindness and guide dogs.

I find that most people actually like dogs and more of the problem is their 
interference of working dogs becausse they are used to only pets.

Julie, I belong to non-blindness groups here in San Diego.  I find that I 
have to educate them on blindness issues and proper guide dog ettiquete when 
they all want to play with Landon! LOL!  In my Democratic Party club, I had 
to educate the rest of the board members when I joined the board last year 
as club secretary.  They would do votes by raising their hands - well no 
help to me to record votes that way!  I just joked with them by saying, "Hey 
guys, your hands aren't loud enough for me to hear the votes!"  They cracked 
up and from then on did actual voice votes for me. I tape the meetings and 
that's fine by them - the only one who hears the tapes is me to do my 
minutes from them.  then I reuse the files (digital "tape") for more 
meetings.  On my first day on the job, one of the members said that Landon 
was now an honorary board member!

I just go to clubs or political groups who are friendly and open to me as a 
blind person - and of course, ones who share my politics!  Just go to groups 
that interest you and see what happens and how open people are to you to 
determine if you want to stay with that group or not.

Lions clubs - well I'm not going to go there about my experiences with them. 
Over the years my experiences have been negative to sort of negative 
generally but individual Lions can be really great folks.  Hey, I dated one 
several years ago and he was fairly good about blindness issues but not 
perfect.  Lions members are just like anywhere else and any other group of 
mostly sighted folks.  I know several blind people who are in Lions here and 
they're okay.  I didn't know that NFB had a Lions Division.  Hopefully, the 
people in that group can educate the rest of the Lions on better blindness 
attitudes.  Eve is right, Lions support alot of things all over the world. 
they get involved in local issues, blindness, deafness, diabetes, support 
guide dog schools.  Many seem closed minded like you had with attitudes 
towards owner-trained guide dogs.  I've seen that in my own blind community 
here.  Now that's something folks NEVER encounter generally unless people 
get to know blind folks who have trained their own dogs.  Outside the list, 
I personally have known two people in all my years of being around and using 
guide dogs.  One person in Boston who did it in the early 1970s and another 
person I met in CT in 1998 while I was visiting a friend of mine.  Both of 
these owner-trained dogs wwere very good and no different than 
school-trained ones.  Here in my own community, I spoke up in defense of 
owner training and that it can be done by the right people who really know 
what they are doing.

Lyn and Landon
"Asking who's the man and who's the woman in an LGBT relationship is like 
asking which chopstick is the fork" - Unknown
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Larry D. Keeler" <lkeeler at comcast.net>
To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users" 
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Saturday, February 16, 2013 12:45 PM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] guide dogs in seminary


> Tami, that's why I sometimes post about going to church functions with 
> Holly.  So that we also here the other side and we know that everything 
> isn't all bad!
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Tami Jarvis" <tami at poodlemutt.com>
> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users" 
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Saturday, February 16, 2013 1:30 PM
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] guide dogs in seminary
>
>
>> Eve,
>>
>> Yup! It's true. You can show up with your guide dog to church and be 
>> booted without a thing to do about it. They can discriminate like the 
>> wind if that's what they want to do!
>>
>> Every now and then, we do get to hear from someone to whom this has 
>> actually happened. Sigh. It does leave the guide dog user in question 
>> with a heck of a choice. Do they leave the dog behind and worship there 
>> anyway? It's a very individual choice. Some choose to attend sans dog; 
>> others choose to go elsewhere.
>>
>> Private clubs can also discriminate legally, being exempt from the ADA 
>> and other such inconveniences. Sigh.
>>
>> Seems like a lot of guide dog users do take their dogs to worship and are 
>> welcomed, so that is the bright side. /smile/ People do the right thing 
>> by choice even if the law doesn't make them.
>>
>> Tami
>>
>> On 02/15/2013 07:15 PM, Eve Sanchez wrote:
>>> Does this mean that we could be denied in churches and other religious
>>> spiritual places and events? Do we need to ask permission to worship?
>>> I really would like this clarified and to whether or not this is even
>>> true. Sounds horrible if it is. Well, I guess, my dog is welcome in my
>>> temple at least. Blessed Be. Eve
>>>
>>> On Fri, Feb 15, 2013 at 6:42 PM, Cindy Ray <cindyray at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> I don't think they can deny you access if you are visiting her at a 
>>>> seminary. If their students are eligible for Pel grants, then I am 
>>>> almost sure they can't deny you the right to visit your friend and to 
>>>> bring your dog.
>>>>
>>>> Cindy
>>>>
>>>> On Feb 15, 2013, at 6:41 PM, Martha Harris wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hi Everyone,
>>>>> I have an access question. I want to visit my friend for a few days, 
>>>>> and she lives in the dorm on campus at her seminary. They said, since 
>>>>> they are a church-related organization, the ADA doesn't apply to them. 
>>>>> So, I'm not covered under title three of the ADA, but am I covered 
>>>>> under fair housing or any other laws? They also cited allergy 
>>>>> concerns, which I know isn't allowed under ADA. Thanks for the help; 
>>>>> I'm so confused.
>>>>>
>>>>> Martha
>>>>>
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>>
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