[nagdu] clicker training

[Tami Jarvis]

Cindy,

Excellent explanation.

You can now be sure, though, that any number of clicker-trainers, 
including myself, never use leash corrections. Or any other 
punishment-style form of negative reinforcement. /smile/

That doesn't mean there is no negative reinforcement component to 
applied operant conditioning (as used in clicker-training). It just 
involves removing the reward from undesired behavior, then rewarding the 
desired behavior that replaces it. Once you and your dog both have your 
heads wrapped around that process, it all appears instantaneous, or 
nearly so. When you're training up an obnoxious, rebellious scurvy cur 
of a juvenile, it appears that you may just be standing around looking 
the other way in your yoga "mountain pose" while your dog does a lot of 
dancing and pulling and whatnot at the other end of the leash. /lol/ The 
mountain pose involves standing rooted to the ground in a very balanced 
way, which makes it great for standing perfectly still like a tether 
post while your rebellious young dog learns that it's just not going to 
get anywhere in what it wants to do that you don't want it to. This 
actually does work more quickly and overall effectively than all the 
punishment of yanking and jerking to show the dog who is boss. The 
lesson will stick with the young rebel if she comes to the right 
conclusion herself while she's still in full adolescent rebellion. Then, 
once she decides that what she really wants to do is whatever it is you 
want her to, whether she's admitted that you are the boss of her or not, 
you're good to go. Until next time, if your rebellious adolescent is a 
Mitzi poodle. Ah, the memories! /lol/

With car barkers, which would really set her off when we passed them, I 
would just keep walking and repeating "leave it" while I dragged her at 
first. Of course, since she was a rebellious adolescent then, not a 
guide dog, I was using my cane for O&M and could do that. Being pulled 
unwilling in so undignified a fashion wasn't fun for her, but trotting 
ahead of me all smiles and happiness *was* fun. So she would stop 
resisting and trot ahead pretty as you please. After a while, she might 
start a little when a car started barking, but then she would flick her 
tail and keep on prancing. /smile/ Silly poodle. She might actually 
whine at having to pass up a chance to be a bark monster herself. But 
she will pass, and most of the time without so much as a reminder from 
me. Well, in harness she doesn't do the whining thing unless she's 
really feeling frisky or is just really startled. We went on a buddy 
walk the other day though, with her on long leash and me with my cane, 
and she did whine passing by a few yards after we had gone through some 
very brief versions of those old training sessions. Cracked me up.

Anyway, even advanced training without leash corrections is very 
possible and works very well. It can take some creative thinking, 
especially with a new trainee, and some patience at the outset. /smile/

Tami

On 02/17/2013 08:06 PM, Cindy Ray wrote:
> I am wondering about pushing over you as an owner. I don't think a dog could do that. It does the thing you want it to do, ou click and give it a tiny treat. If it doesn't do it, no treat. Gradually it begins doing it with just the praise. I don't really think dogs think of "pulling something over" or "pushing something over" on the owner that much. They want to do something and they will. But they like to please you and they like praise, so positive re-enforcement should truly work well. I'm not sure people who use clicker training never use leash corrections though.
>
> Cindy Lou
>
> On Feb 17, 2013, at 9:04 PM, Lora :) wrote:
>
>> Hello
>> I have a few questions about clicker training and positive
>> reinforcement training in general. I am NOT trying to flame or offend
>> anyone. I can see the advantages of positive reinforcement ie dog is
>> not scared of getting a correction and not scared of you. I wonder
>> about clicker trained dogs not having a sense of boundaries and just
>> pushing over you as the owner. Could someone please clarify or correct
>> if need be? I like that clicker trained dogs aren't afraid to try and
>> they don't have to worry about getting a leash correction. Thank you
>> for your help.
>> Lora
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nagdu mailing list
>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nagdu:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/cindyray%40gmail.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nagdu mailing list
> nagdu at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nagdu:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/tami%40poodlemutt.com
>