[nagdu] clicker training and echolocation

Wed Feb 20 13:15:18 UTC 2013

Tami,

You are too funny!  Honestly I don't use the clicker much in our daily 
work anymore.  I still use it at home, more for something to do when we 
get snowed in or something.  I've gotten rather lax about teaching new 
useful skills lately.  I should, Monty loves the challenge and the 
excitement of something new.  It's easy to get comfortable with the ease 
of a seasoned dog though.  We are supposed to get a foot or more snow  
tonight and tomorrow, so I suspect we'll have ample time to play a 
couple games of Monopoly and teach both dogs how to overthrow the 
universe. *smile*

Julie

On 2/19/2013 12:47 PM, Tami Jarvis wrote:
> Julie,
>
> You go, girl! I love echolocation, especially in those wild and crazy 
> outdoorsy settings, or in wide open indoor spaces... It can take a 
> while to really get the hang of using the sound signals for direction 
> and distance. I think once the brain starts processing the information 
> better, then it comes together fast and gets easy and fun. I'm still 
> working to improve there, but by now I mostly just have to think about 
> it and practice some new refinement without the real work and 
> difficulty I remember from when my central vision started to go.
>
> So I'd been using the clicker for echolocation for probably a year or 
> more with Mitzi before I clued in that I was even doing it... I caught 
> myself clicking my cane while she was at the groomer and felt very, 
> very silly! So I put the clicker away and was completely lost. Um... 
> Oh. /lol/ I'm still trying to figure out how my dog is not completely 
> screwed up, since I had clearly been doing everything wrong for quite 
> a while... I had naively believed that she was so much perkier and 
> happier on the job when I had the clicker in hand because she just 
> needed a lot of cheerleading. In retrospect, I think it's because I'm 
> just not such a pain in her backside when I'm getting the 
> echolocation. The reward is that I move more smoothly and confidently 
> and all, so she doesn't have to work so hard to get me where I need to 
> go. When I don't have the clicker, she still knows what to do, but I 
> started to realize that I just don't have the confidence to go along 
> without hesitation or second-guessing... I still have to work on that 
> sometimes, even though you would think I had figured out by now that I 
> can just trust my dog whether I'm detecting what's around us or not. 
> Sigh.
>
> I've experimented with using the tongue click, but haven't really got 
> the hang of it. Using the finger snap in conjunction with the white 
> cane is useful. With Mitzi, that's my signal that I've had enough of 
> the nonsense, I really mean it, shape up now, and so on. So I haven't 
> tried cultivating that technique for when I'm working with her. Also, 
> my right hand seems to do better with that, and I use her on my right. 
> Also, since using the mechanical clicker so very, very wrongly hasn't 
> completely messed her up, I haven't put a lot of effort into phasing 
> that out. It's just too convenient. /smile/
>
> I'm interested to see how that works for you with Monty. He sounds 
> like an awfully smart dog, so you will probably find that he can 
> figure it out surprisingly well. Like Mitzi, he knows what to do and 
> how to make you happy while he's working. So maybe it's just that the 
> basic tool for behavior capture is no longer what the experienced dogs 
> need? I dunno. Let me know when you figure it out. /lol/
>
> Tami
>
> On 02/19/2013 05:54 AM, Julie J. wrote:
>> Hello all!
>>
>> I am thinking of learning better echo location skills to help me be a
>> better traveler, especially in outdoor off road settings.  I am
>> specifically thinking of the technique called flash sonar taught by
>> World Access for the Blind.   It's the tongue click technique where you
>> listen to the echoes to get pretty detailed information about your
>> environment.
>>
>> I understand that this technique has been met with skepticism in the
>> past.  I understand that it isn't for everyone.  I feel though that it
>> will give me added information about my environment, allowing me to
>> explore and challenge what I previously thought would be difficult or
>> impossible.
>>
>> I am not giving up working with a guide dog.  I plan to use this skill
>> to compliment my use of cane and dog, not to replace them.   I am a good
>> traveler now, but there are things I would like to do or do with more
>> accuracy and ease than I am able to do now, camping, hiking, roller
>> skating, archery, moving through airports, outdoor festivals, etc and
>> perhaps riding a bike.
>>
>> So my main question is to those of you who use clicker training with
>> your dogs, especially those who use the tongue click.  Am I going to
>> confuse Monty with the echolocation clicks since he has been trained
>> that is a marker signal that he has done something I wanted?   I'm
>> thinking I can go back to the very first lesson of clicker training
>> where you teach the dog that click means treat, except this time I will
>> mix up tongue clicks with mechanical clicks only giving treats for the
>> mechanical clicks to teach him that tongue clicks are no longer 
>> rewarded.
>>
>> I would also like to know if anyone has experience with using advanced
>> echo location with your guide dog.  How has it helped you?  Have you
>> encountered any problems?  Have you discovered you are able to do things
>> you never thought possible?
>>
>> Thanks for any thoughts or ideas,
>> Julie
>>
>>
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>
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