[nagdu] Hi there

Pickrell, Rebecca M (TASC) REBECCA.PICKRELL at tasc.com
Tue Jan 8 19:37:19 UTC 2013 

	Tami, 
This is extremely interesting. I'm wondering why you plan to be more scientiffic in your next dog especially if this process worked well for you now? 
Why change the process if what you have works?

-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Tami Jarvis
Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2012 1:55 PM
To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Hi there

Rebecca,

Those are all good questions, so hard to answer.

With Mitzi, I lucked out. I had decided to get a cat, so I called poodle 
breeders and ended up with the one I have now. I was talking about 
making payments on a different pup when I started blathering about how I 
might just train it to be a guide dog if it had the right stuff. The 
breeder listened patiently while I rattled on, then finally interrupted 
and said, "I have the dog for you." She started going on about a small 
black female, when I had wanted a large black male or the large red male 
we were discussing... But my intuition and noting the actual size of my 
apartment told me to consider it. I was going to pay half-price for this 
small black female, which would have been $500 at the time. But the 
breeder made a gift of the dog, which was great! I was able to use that 
money to have her spayed and so forth, so it worked out. And she is just 
the right dog for me! What that says about me, I try not to wonder, but 
there it is.

In considering what to do about my next, I plan to go about things more 
scientifically. That means I will need to investigate sources, including 
finding a breeder. I will be looking at rescues and the like, but... For 
a guide dog prospect, I want to know as much as possible about breeding, 
history, etc. Our other dog will always be a rescue, but for a guide... 
Unless I get real lucky at a rescue, I will tend towards a breeder.

So the first step is to evaluate the breeder, of course. What traits do 
they breed for? Show? Temperament? How clean are their bloodlines? No 
line breeding, thank you! How healthy are their dogs? What conditions 
are they kept in? Etc. Do I know anybody with dogs from that breeder or 
anyone who knows the dogs? That's where my vet niece comes in handy. She 
knows a couple of dobie breeders with great dogs that produce great 
pups, so there's a good lead.

Price? That is set by the market, I guess. Mitzi was less expensive 
because she is small and black, where the big reds and other colors are 
more in fashion. I haven't really investigated the dobie market yet, 
because it might make me cry. But I am doing everything I can to save up.

Private trainers are indeed expensive! The exact cost would depend on 
the market in your area. Unless something drastic changes for me, I'll 
be going the do-it-myself route again. If we are able to stick to our 
plans for DD's retirement, where I freelance instead of getting 
something full time working for The Man, I will have the time to put 
into it. And we have good beginning training grounds here. For the more 
advanced city slicker stuff, we plan to travel and will be around big 
city challenges to work on. So it should be doable... Should! /lol/

So as an owner-trainer, you pay your own vet bills all the way, 
including spay/neuter, all vaccinations and boosters, anything else that 
comes up. You buy the food all the way, buy your own training equipment 
and supplies. Fortunately, I now have a good stock of leashes, leading 
harnesses, even a small guide dog harness for early training with that. 
Assuming I do get the right dobie or another poodle, I will be able to 
use one of Mitzi's Pawpower harnesses for much of the training. 
Fortunately, the Pawpower harnesses are not super expensive, so I won't 
be stuck trying to make my own. /lol/ I know a lot of owner-trainers who 
end up doing that, but I ain't the crafty sort.

Training treats and clickers are mandatory for me, but I'm used to that 
expense anyway. A trained dog doesn't require as many treats as a 
trainee, so that expense is going up just with  more advanced training 
for DD's mutt puppy. But it's not that huge....

For the other specialized training needs for a guide dog prospect, you 
can get really creative and connect with other owner-trainers who are 
more creative! Playgrounds are great places to teach agility and body 
awareness, stair climbing and so forth as the young dog grows. With 
Mitzi, I had to hire cabs to work on riding in cars, and a couple of 
times got to pay the sick fee. The cabbies would insist I didn't have 
to, but... Fortunately, she got over being car sick once riding in the 
car wasn't so super exciting. /smile/ Now I have a vehicle and private 
driver, along with two experienced traveling dogs to help with that 
training. /smile/

Um... What else? Mostly, I'm hoping again to use my time and patience 
and whatever I can dredge up in the way of ingenuity to get the job 
done. /smile/

The spouse will have to be involved in the search, at least as 
transportation. And he will just have to accept what I get! So there! 
/lol/ When we first met, he couldn't understand why I would want to 
owner-train instead of going through a program. He's been around the 
scene longer now and learned a lot... So he's pro owner-training. Yay!

Anyway, that's my take on the whole thing. Don't know how much I 
actually answered, but there are no set or pat answers, so there you 
have it. /smile/

Tami

On 12/19/2012 09:53 AM, Pickrell, Rebecca M (TASC) wrote:
> Julie, Tami and others,
> I'm curious how much you pay for the breeding, training and the like?
> I can understand training your own dog, but I've always heard that a private trainer was expensive. Julie, how did you find yours? What will happen if you tell him or her to train the dog to do x, and the dog doesn't learn this skill? Is the trainer at fault and how do you know if the trainer did something that went against your instructions or if the dog just can't or won't learn the skill.
>
> Where does the time to find the right breeder and trainer come from? Do you go as a family to find these people, or do you do it on your own and then tell the spouse and kids what you're doing?
> What is the trainer's deliverable exactly?
>
> Do you have money set aside for dog stuff if this is as expensive as I think it may be?
> Very curious to understand this.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Tami Jarvis
> Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2012 12:47 PM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Hi there
>
> Julie,
>
> Wow! You *are* getting an early start! /smile/ I'm planning to wait
> another year, at least, to get a younger pup, so Mitzi will be 7 or more
> then... I'm like you, though. I go back and forth a lot at this point,
> since I don't absolutely have to make the decision now. /smile/
>
> I'll be looking forward to hearing about your dobie pick! I haven't
> found a breeder yet that I'm happy with, but I have feelers out.
> Starting next summer or thereabouts, I'm going to need to get serious, huh?
>
> It's confusing for me, since poodles are supposed to live much longer
> than other large breed dogs -- 14 to 20! So I don't want to be too
> conservative in planning for Mitzi's retirement. What to do? What to do?
> /lol/
>
> Tami
>
> On 12/19/2012 05:39 AM, Julie J. wrote:
>> Monty is a Boxer and Lab mix.  Belle is a lab and who knows what mix.
>> Tia was a Coonhound.  All have had their strengths and weaknesses.  I
>> have never seen a dog so aware of overhead obstacles as Miss Tia.  I
>> guess being bred to run raccoons up a tree caused her to be more aware
>> of the concept of up.  I wouldn't choose another Coonhound though.
>> Mostly I trained her because she was there and I wanted to see if I
>> could do it.
>>
>> My next dog will most likely be a Doberman, which is actually the breed
>> I have been looking for from the beginning.  I've been saving up and I
>> think I can find one this time.  a Boxer is also a consideration, but
>> I'm not finding a breeder in the Midwest that I'm satisfied with.  I'm
>> still looking though.
>>
>> Previously my dogs have come from shelters.  this time I'm strongly
>> leaning toward going with a breeder, a young puppy and I'm having a
>> private trainer raise the puppy and do the initial guide training. After
>> a lot of soul searching and changing my mind two dozen times I have
>> decided to go the route of private trainer.  I simply do not have the
>> time or energy to train another guide dog, but I'm not 100% comfortable
>> with the offerings of any of the available programs.  I'm very excited
>> about this arrangement because I don't have to put in the time and
>> effort, but I still get to choose all the important things to me
>> throughout the process.
>>
>> As of right now the puppy will be born sometime in the spring.  He will
>> go to the trainer in the summer, where he will stay for somewhere in the
>> neighborhood of 18 to 24 months.  then probably I'll travel there to
>> spend a week or so with the dog and trainer learning what I need to know
>> before I bring the dog home.  If all goes well I'll have my next dog in
>> a little over two years.  Monty will be about 7.5 then, which might be a
>> bit young for him to retire.  However I'm not sure exactly when he'll
>> start slowing down or showing signs of age related health issues, so I'm
>> planning the best I can and will probably alternate between the two dogs
>> to make the transition easier for both.
>>
>> And that is more than you asked, but there you go!
>> Julie
>>
>>
>>
>> On 12/18/2012 10:37 PM, Laurel wrote:
>>> Hey Debbie and all! Hope y'all are well, I've been so quiet on here
>>> because I've had a crazy semester at college, but that's another post
>>> under another subject line. What kind of dog is Leone, I can't
>>> remember at the moment.
>>> Also, as far as dog breeds go, those of you who owner train, what is
>>> y'all's breed preference? What kind of dog do you all have, and what
>>> are your favorite breeds to train?
>>> Laurel and Stockard
>>>
>>> On 12/18/12, Debbie Cole<debbieanne1124 at gmail.com>  wrote:
>>>> ***waves her yellow lab's tail at Laurel.
>>>>
>>>> Debbie and Leone
>>>>
>>>> On 12/18/12, Laurel<laurel.stockard at gmail.com>  wrote:
>>>>> Ok y'all, how many poodles do we have, I don't know. I also wanna know
>>>>> how many shepherds we have etc. I have a yellow lab. It would be cool
>>>>> also to know which are the most represented schools on here, Pilot,
>>>>> GDB, TSE etc. I'm from Guide Dogs for the Blind. This could be sort of
>>>>> fun. :)
>>>>> Laurel and Stockard, yellow lab from GDB
>>>>>
>>>>> On 12/18/12, consuelo johnson<consuelo.johnson050 at gmail.com>  wrote:
>>>>>> I'm working a davenman pitcher and she is a wonderful guide.  I
>>>>>> just got
>>>>>> her
>>>>>> about a week ago so we are a new team right now.
>>>>>> consuelo
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Jessica
>>>>>> Pitzer
>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2012 7:21 PM
>>>>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Hi there
>>>>>>
>>>>>> i have a black lab
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 12/18/12, John Russo<johnnyrusso at windstream.net>  wrote:
>>>>>>> Hi members,
>>>>>>> How many guide dog users have Doberman Pinchers?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of d m gina
>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2012 5:49 PM
>>>>>>> To: nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> Subject: [nagdu] Hi there
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Now that we know there are several puddles out there giggle, How many
>>>>>>> black labs or even how many yellow labs are out there.
>>>>>>> On this list.
>>>>>>> Just thought I would have fun.
>>>>>>> Tammy your address isn't coming into my address book, can you send it
>>>>>>> to me please?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> --Dar
>>>>>>> skype: dmgina23
>>>>>>>     FB: dmgina
>>>>>>> www.twitter.com/dmgina
>>>>>>> every saint has a past
>>>>>>> every sinner has a future
>>>>>>>
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