[nagdu] Quality of Training was pilot dogs traffic checks

Fri Jul 12 13:36:08 UTC 2013

Hi Marion.
I'm both a donor and a "consumer".  (Boy, do I hate that term "consumer"!)
 I know that my dog enhances my life considerably.  I think there's a fine
line between expressing that truth, and the "hero dogs leading me out of
my lonely darkness", sort of thing.  It's easy for publicity/fundraising
to stray over that line, sometimes.  It annoys me a lot when it does, but
I can see how it could be tricky. I think TSE usually does a pretty good
job, by letting people talk about what the dog does for them, but it's not
perfect.
I don't think fundraising would be very effective that said something like
"I can use my dog or my cane to get where I want to go, but my dog is
helpful is some situations." I wonder what you think it should say?  I
know drippy goo when I hear it, but it can't be too blase, either. I look
forward to your articles.
Tracy

> Dear All,
> 	I believe that, for the most part, all the training programs do a
> good job as it pertains to the quality of training. From my personal point
> of view, the differences I observe are with the philosophies of the
> programs
> and the resulting manner in which consumers are viewed and treated. The
> purpose of the Guide Dog Consumers' Bill of Rights is to outline certain
> standards the National Association of Guide Dog Users and the National
> Federation of the Blind believe to be dignified, respectful  treatment of
> blind consumers. It gives blind consumers considering a training program
> elements to consider when evaluating a training program. Whether a
> training
> program agrees with the Bill of Rights or not matters less to me than
> affording consumers a tool to measure how a training program measures up.
> 	In a market driven economy, it is best for those who provide goods
> and/or services to listen to their consumers and meet their needs. As the
> collective voice of blind consumers, we believe it is our responsibility
> to
> inform the public about what we believe is a good service by establishing
> reasonable standards for measuring what quality training involves. The
> Bill
> of Rights is our operational definition of this abstract, subjective term.
> As consumers, it is our right to ask training programs how they measure up
> and our responsibility to demand they modify their policies, practices,
> and
> procedures to align themselves with what we believe is dignified
> treatment.
> 	It is my goal over the next year to publish several articles in the
> Braille Monitor and on our Harness Up! Blog on this topic. As we shift the
> paradigm of the blind from beneficiaries to consumers of guide dog
> training
> programs, those who raise millions of dollars from the public on our
> behalf
> will either need to realign their philosophies or accept the consequences
> of
> not doing so.
> 	All guide dog training programs have four stakeholders: Consumers,
> volunteers, donors, and employees. Some programs seem to consider the most
> important stakeholder to be the donor. Some of these programs solicit
> donations by telling donors how important their work is and, in so many
> words,  how the plight of the blind is made better by their services. Such
> an approach may serve the training program employing this tactic by making
> the public feel sorry for us and give money to improve our plight, but
> what
> does it do to us as blind people? How does it impact our everyday lives?
> Is
> it partly responsible for the misconceptions we face from the public many
> of
> us on this list have complained about? Is it partly responsible for our
> high
> unemployment rate? Do the ways in which we are portrayed by the so-called
> experts in the field of blindness have an impact on our lives? These are
> the
> sorts of questions I hope to address in the future in the effort to
> continue
> shifting the paradigm. Your comments are respectfully requested!
>
> Fraternally  yours,
>
> Marion Gwizdala, President
> National Association of Guide Dog Users Inc.
> National Federation of the Blind
> (813) 626-2789 (Office)
> 888-NAGDU411 (Hotline
> President at nagdu.org
> www.nagdu.org
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Danielle
> Antoine
> Sent: Thursday, July 11, 2013 1:03 AM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] pilot dogs traffic checks was Update: Training
> Program
> sat NAGDU Meeting
>
> But, could it be that they don't know or can't tell the difference because
> they have never had any other experience? Are there any other grads who
> have
> gone to Pilot after another program on hear? I will say that I've been on
> a
> few non-school specific lists and as stated previously they all seem happy
> with there training. this is very interesting and I don't really have much
> info nor have I seen any working teams from there so I'd like to hear more
> about Pilot Dogs.
> that's what I've always heard though that they didn't do planned traffic
> checks. Kind of worrisome!
>
> Danielle
>
> On 7/10/13, rhonda cruz <rhondaprincess at gmail.com> wrote:
>>  hello may, keeps me safe every time we travel together,  she has done
>> many traffic  checks,  and we work hard to.
>>  i feel pilot did a good job at mamatching us.
>>
>> On Jul 8, 2013, at 12:58 PM, Howard J. Levine wrote:
>>
>>> I agree if a xchool is going to cut back on traffic checks what else
>>> are they cutting back on. You want to know how your guide dog is
>>> going ot react to problem and keep you safe.
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of National
>>> Association of Guide Dog Users
>>> Sent: Monday, July 08, 2013 3:49 PM
>>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] pilot dogs traffic checks was Update: Training
>>> Program sat NAGDU Meeting
>>>
>>> Rebecca.
>>> 	This may be an issue of not knowing rather than not caring. I
>>> believe traffic checks are an important part of guide dog work and,
>>> to the best of my knowledge, Pilot is the only guide dog training
>>> program that does not include them in their training! If Pilot
>>> consumers knew how important they were and that everyone else gets
>>> what they do not, perhaps they would speak up. Then again, they may
>>> be met with the same sort of irrational excuses other training
>>> programs offer us and we are expected to accept without question! For
>>> instance, Pilot may assert that traffic checks are unnecessary and
>>> their consumers are expected to accept this without question. If they
>>> are not important, why does every other program put such a major
>>> emphasis on them?
>>>
>>> Fraternally yours,
>>> Marion
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Star Gazer
>>> Sent: Monday, July 08, 2013 12:03 PM
>>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] pilot dogs traffic checks was Update: Training
>>> Program sat NAGDU Meeting
>>>
>>> Steve,
>>> The Pilot grads don't seem to mind this though. So why would they
>>> speak up?
>>> To them, it isn't a problem. To me, it's a deal breaker.
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Steven
>>> Johnson
>>> Sent: Wednesday, July 03, 2013 7:07 PM
>>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] pilot dogs traffic checks was Update: Training
>>> Program sat NAGDU Meeting
>>>
>>> Deanna, you make an excellent point.  Having a controlled traffic
>>> check can help the student get prepared for what is inevitable.
>>> Whether it is a gas powered car, quiet car, bicycle, skateboard; we
>>> can begin to learn and feel how our dogs react to those situations.
>>> Sometimes they are slight, and sometimes, very apparent checks as we
>>> all know.  What would be ideal is for the Pilot grads to step up and
>>> simply make this request.  The more they hear from, the more likely
>>> they might listen, and a potential change could be made.
>>>
>>> Steve
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Deanna
>>> Lewis
>>> Sent: Wednesday, July 03, 2013 10:43 AM
>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] pilot dogs traffic checks was Update: Training
>>> Programsat NAGDU Meeting
>>>
>>> I am sorry, but I would rather have a trained professional driving a
>>> car and testing my dog and I, than I would to have a random stranger
>>> who is not paying attention come close to, or actually hitting us.
>>> Drivers nowadays are so careless and they are always on their cell
>>> phones, texting, putting on makeup, and so forth. They just do not
>>> pay attention to pedestrians.
>>> I strongly believe that planned traffic checks are an essential part
>>> of guide dog training.
>>> Deanna and Pascal
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Darla
>>> Rogers
>>> Sent: Wednesday, July 03, 2013 11:30 AM
>>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] pilot dogs traffic checks was Update: Training
>>> Programsat NAGDU Meeting
>>>
>>> Dear Chantel,
>>>
>>> That is totally ridiculous; I wouldn't want a dog who freaked out
>>> with artificial traffic checks.
>>> Darla & Handsome Huck
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Chantel
>>> Cuddemi
>>> Sent: Tuesday, July 02, 2013 11:39 PM
>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] pilot dogs traffic checks was Update: Training
>>> Programsat NAGDU Meeting
>>>
>>> Guys,
>>>
>>> Students and dogs were freaked out by the artificial traffic checks
>>> set up by Pilot. I wasn't aware that the dogs go through artificial
>>> traffic checks before we got them.
>>>
>>> On 7/2/13, Larry D. Keeler <lkeeler at comcast.net> wrote:
>>>> That I didn't know! I just know that between Holly and I we don't
>>>> have any probblems! She'll stop whebn cars are coming and go around
>>>> those that park in the middle of the street.
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Snow White Dove" <jlperdue3 at gmail.com>
>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, July 02, 2013 6:19 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] pilot dogs traffic checks was Update: Training
>>>> Programsat NAGDU Meeting
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Hi Ava,
>>>>>
>>>>> Pilot dogs does traffic checks while the dogs are in their training
>>>>> period
>>>>>
>>>>> with the trainers, before they get to you.
>>>>>
>>>>> You're right though, there are plenty of opportunities for the dog
>>>>> to show
>>>>>
>>>>> you it'll stop for traffic during your training itself.
>>>>>
>>>>> Hope this helps.
>>>>>
>>>>> Jenny
>>>>> On Jul 2, 2013, at 3:16 AM, avapup.7 at gmail.com wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> I've heard this before, that pilot dogs doesn't do traffic checks.
>>>>>> As I am considering this program for after my Cocoa girl retires
>>>>>> I'm wondering
>>>>>>
>>>>>> if it's maybe a difference in terminology? I mean, their dogs are
>>>>>> trained
>>>>>>
>>>>>> to stop if a car approaches, right? Like, intelligent disobedience?
>>>>>> But is it that pilot dogs doesn't set up artificial situations for
>>>>>> their students where they have a car driven by a staff member to
>>>>>> test them? I'd
>>>>>>
>>>>>> think that in Columbus there would be plenty of real life traffic
>>>>>> checks
>>>>>>
>>>>>> without setting them up like other schools do! Ugh, Columbus
>>>>>> traffic! Do
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I have it right or am I thinking of something different? Thanks!!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Ava and Cocoa
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Jul 1, 2013, at 1:24 PM, rhonda cruz <rhondaprincess at gmail.com>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> the staff at pilot are good.
>>>>>>> maybe if we got more grads from pilot they would change there
>>>>>>> minds, about going to a nfb convention, but i will never know, if
>>>>>>> i just ask.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Jul 1, 2013, at 7:04 AM, Star Gazer wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Sounds like the trainer at Pilot wasn't briefed properly before
>>>>>>>> giving
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> her
>>>>>>>> presentation.
>>>>>>>> Agree with Marsha, the folks in charge at Pilot could have
>>>>>>>> calmed her down and used it as a learning opportunity.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
>>>>>>>> Marsha Drenth
>>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, June 29, 2013 3:40 PM
>>>>>>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog
>>>>>>>> Users
>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Update: Training Programs at NAGDU Meeting
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> marion,
>>>>>>>> When did this happen? I am assuming before you took the
>>>>>>>> presidency.
>>>>>>>> Althought there has been those members around since those time,,
>>>>>>>> before
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> you
>>>>>>>> took the presidency, the NAGDU is certainly different from those
>>>>>>>> times
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> too.
>>>>>>>> its unfortunate that Pilot feels that way, that they feel they
>>>>>>>> can not participate. I wonder if its graduates urged them to do
>>>>>>>> so, if they would. I do feel like that is a cop-out.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Marsha drenth
>>>>>>>> Sent with my IPhone
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Jun 28, 2013, at 6:53 PM, "National Association of Guide Dog
>>>>>>>> Users"
>>>>>>>> <blind411 at verizon.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Rhonda,
>>>>>>>>> Pilot has not been to an NFB convention since I have been an
>>>>>>>>> officer. When I spoke with Jay Gray to invite him, he said
>>>>>>>>> Pilot would
>>>>>>>> never
>>>>>>>>> attend another convention because it was his opinion one of his
>>>>>>>>> trainers
>>>>>>>> was
>>>>>>>>> embarrassed at a meeting. I don't remember the incident, but he
>>>>>>>>> said the trainer was asked about traffic checks and she said
>>>>>>>>> Pilot did not do
>>>>>>>> traffic
>>>>>>>>> checks. Apparently, the president at the time was very
>>>>>>>>> surprised and exclaimed, "You don't do traffic checks?"
>>>>>>>>> According to someone else that
>>>>>>>> was
>>>>>>>>> there, this is how it happened and a rather strong discussion
>>>>>>>>> of the importance of traffic checks followed. I told Mr. Gray
>>>>>>>>> that I felt it
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> was
>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>> reasonable question and couldn't imagine not doing traffic
>>>>>>>>> checks while assuring him that, in spite of the fact that our
>>>>>>>>> members can be very assertive, I would never allow anyone to
>>>>>>>>> insult another nor treat anyone with disrespect or in an
>>>>>>>>> undignified manner. Pilot has still not chosen to attend our
>>>>>>>>> conventions, though!
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Fraternally yours,
>>>>>>>>> Marion Gwizdala
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> -----
>>>>>>
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>>>>>
>>>>>
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