[nagdu] Quality of Training was pilot dogs traffic checks
Margo and Arrow
margo.downey at verizon.net
Sat Jul 13 01:56:51 UTC 2013
I only remember one time Pilot came to a convention and that was in 2009 in
Detroit.
Margo and Arrow
-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Larry D. Keeler
Sent: Friday, July 12, 2013 9:19 PM
To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Quality of Training was pilot dogs traffic checks
I went to Pilot and am actually very happy with the service that I got! But,
I admit that they could do traffic checks and a few other things. I noticed
that they weren't one of the presentors at the convention And, I wished I
would have heard from them! s
----- Original Message -----
From: "Darla Rogers" <djrogers0628 at gmail.com>
To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'"
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, July 12, 2013 6:51 PM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Quality of Training was pilot dogs traffic checks
>I don't get it why you feel disrespected because some of us want set up
>traffic checks to give us an idea on how our dogs will react, as it is
>critical if this should really occur, and, at least, at GDA, the dogs
>have been taught to react in predictable ways, though, it is true,
>they may react differently depending on the situation.
> I know many, many happy pilot grads, and I never disparage Pilot to
>perspective students, but choosing a school is a very personal decision.
> Darla & Hardworking Huck
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Sheila
> Leigland
> Sent: Friday, July 12, 2013 12:16 PM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Quality of Training was pilot dogs traffic checks
>
> hi Marion, there is no doubt in my mmind that the atitudes of agencies
> and this includes guide dog schools affect how we are seen by the
> public and can affect employment as well as other aspects of our
> lives. We do need to be careful with whom we cchoose to work if at all
> posible. I didn't know if harness up was around and now that we are
> official members of nagdu I need to know how to find it. Is it on the
> nagdu website? I don't have a problem hwith questions addressed about
> pilot dogs even though our dogs are from them but I do expect to be
> treated with respect for the right to make the choices that I make.I
> try hard to respect the rights of others in and with the choices that
> they make.
> Thank you very much.
> On 7/12/2013 6:20 AM, National Association of Guide Dog Users wrote:
>> Dear All,
>> I believe that, for the most part, all the training programs do a
>> good job as it pertains to the quality of training. From my personal
>> point of view, the differences I observe are with the philosophies of
>> the programs and the resulting manner in which consumers are viewed
>> and treated. The purpose of the Guide Dog Consumers' Bill of Rights
>> is to outline certain standards the National Association of Guide Dog
>> Users and the National Federation of the Blind believe to be
>> dignified, respectful treatment of blind consumers. It gives blind
>> consumers considering a training program elements to consider when
>> evaluating a training program. Whether a training program agrees with
>> the Bill of Rights or not matters less to me than affording consumers
>> a
> tool to measure how a training program measures up.
>> In a market driven economy, it is best for those who provide goods
>> and/or services to listen to their consumers and meet their needs. As
>> the collective voice of blind consumers, we believe it is our
>> responsibility to inform the public about what we believe is a good
>> service by establishing reasonable standards for measuring what
>> quality training involves. The Bill of Rights is our operational
> definition of this abstract, subjective term.
>> As consumers, it is our right to ask training programs how they
>> measure up and our responsibility to demand they modify their
>> policies, practices, and procedures to align themselves with what we
> believe is dignified treatment.
>> It is my goal over the next year to publish several articles in the
>> Braille Monitor and on our Harness Up! Blog on this topic. As we
>> shift the paradigm of the blind from beneficiaries to consumers of
>> guide dog training programs, those who raise millions of dollars from
>> the public on our behalf will either need to realign their
>> philosophies or accept the consequences of not doing so.
>> All guide dog training programs have four stakeholders: Consumers,
>> volunteers, donors, and employees. Some programs seem to consider the
>> most important stakeholder to be the donor. Some of these programs
>> solicit donations by telling donors how important their work is and,
>> in so many words, how the plight of the blind is made better by
>> their services. Such an approach may serve the training program
>> employing this tactic by making the public feel sorry for us and give
>> money to improve our plight, but what does it do to us as blind
>> people? How does it impact our everyday lives? Is it partly
>> responsible for the misconceptions we face from the public many of us
>> on this list have complained about? Is it partly responsible for our
>> high unemployment rate? Do the ways in which we are portrayed by the
>> so-called experts in the field of blindness have an impact on our
>> lives? These are the sorts of questions I hope to address in the
>> future in the effort to
> continue shifting the paradigm. Your comments are respectfully requested!
>>
>> Fraternally yours,
>>
>> Marion Gwizdala, President
>> National Association of Guide Dog Users Inc.
>> National Federation of the Blind
>> (813) 626-2789 (Office)
>> 888-NAGDU411 (Hotline
>> President at nagdu.org
>> www.nagdu.org
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Danielle
>> Antoine
>> Sent: Thursday, July 11, 2013 1:03 AM
>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] pilot dogs traffic checks was Update: Training
>> Program sat NAGDU Meeting
>>
>> But, could it be that they don't know or can't tell the difference
>> because they have never had any other experience? Are there any other
>> grads who have gone to Pilot after another program on hear? I will
>> say that I've been on a few non-school specific lists and as stated
>> previously they all seem happy with there training. this is very
>> interesting and I don't really have much info nor have I seen any
>> working teams from there so I'd like to hear more about Pilot Dogs.
>> that's what I've always heard though that they didn't do planned
>> traffic checks. Kind of worrisome!
>>
>> Danielle
>>
>> On 7/10/13, rhonda cruz <rhondaprincess at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> hello may, keeps me safe every time we travel together, she has
>>> done many traffic checks, and we work hard to.
>>> i feel pilot did a good job at mamatching us.
>>>
>>> On Jul 8, 2013, at 12:58 PM, Howard J. Levine wrote:
>>>
>>>> I agree if a xchool is going to cut back on traffic checks what
>>>> else are they cutting back on. You want to know how your guide dog
>>>> is going ot react to problem and keep you safe.
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of National
>>>> Association of Guide Dog Users
>>>> Sent: Monday, July 08, 2013 3:49 PM
>>>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] pilot dogs traffic checks was Update: Training
>>>> Program sat NAGDU Meeting
>>>>
>>>> Rebecca.
>>>> This may be an issue of not knowing rather than not caring. I
>>>> believe traffic checks are an important part of guide dog work and,
>>>> to the best of my knowledge, Pilot is the only guide dog training
>>>> program that does not include them in their training! If Pilot
>>>> consumers knew how important they were and that everyone else gets
>>>> what they do not, perhaps they would speak up. Then again, they may
>>>> be met with the same sort of irrational excuses other training
>>>> programs offer us and we are expected to accept without question!
>>>> For instance, Pilot may assert that traffic checks are unnecessary
>>>> and their consumers are expected to accept this without question.
>>>> If they are not important, why does every other program put such a
>>>> major emphasis on them?
>>>>
>>>> Fraternally yours,
>>>> Marion
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Star
>>>> Gazer
>>>> Sent: Monday, July 08, 2013 12:03 PM
>>>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] pilot dogs traffic checks was Update: Training
>>>> Program sat NAGDU Meeting
>>>>
>>>> Steve,
>>>> The Pilot grads don't seem to mind this though. So why would they
>>>> speak up?
>>>> To them, it isn't a problem. To me, it's a deal breaker.
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Steven
>>>> Johnson
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, July 03, 2013 7:07 PM
>>>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] pilot dogs traffic checks was Update: Training
>>>> Program sat NAGDU Meeting
>>>>
>>>> Deanna, you make an excellent point. Having a controlled traffic
>>>> check can help the student get prepared for what is inevitable.
>>>> Whether it is a gas powered car, quiet car, bicycle, skateboard; we
>>>> can begin to learn and feel how our dogs react to those situations.
>>>> Sometimes they are slight, and sometimes, very apparent checks as
>>>> we all know. What would be ideal is for the Pilot grads to step up
>>>> and simply make this request. The more they hear from, the more
>>>> likely they might listen, and a potential change could be made.
>>>>
>>>> Steve
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Deanna
>>>> Lewis
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, July 03, 2013 10:43 AM
>>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] pilot dogs traffic checks was Update: Training
>>>> Programsat NAGDU Meeting
>>>>
>>>> I am sorry, but I would rather have a trained professional driving
>>>> a car and testing my dog and I, than I would to have a random
>>>> stranger who is not paying attention come close to, or actually hitting
us.
>>>> Drivers nowadays are so careless and they are always on their cell
>>>> phones, texting, putting on makeup, and so forth. They just do not
>>>> pay attention to pedestrians.
>>>> I strongly believe that planned traffic checks are an essential
>>>> part of guide dog training.
>>>> Deanna and Pascal
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Darla
>>>> Rogers
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, July 03, 2013 11:30 AM
>>>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] pilot dogs traffic checks was Update: Training
>>>> Programsat NAGDU Meeting
>>>>
>>>> Dear Chantel,
>>>>
>>>> That is totally ridiculous; I wouldn't want a dog who freaked out
>>>> with artificial traffic checks.
>>>> Darla & Handsome Huck
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Chantel
>>>> Cuddemi
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, July 02, 2013 11:39 PM
>>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] pilot dogs traffic checks was Update: Training
>>>> Programsat NAGDU Meeting
>>>>
>>>> Guys,
>>>>
>>>> Students and dogs were freaked out by the artificial traffic checks
>>>> set up by Pilot. I wasn't aware that the dogs go through artificial
>>>> traffic checks before we got them.
>>>>
>>>> On 7/2/13, Larry D. Keeler <lkeeler at comcast.net> wrote:
>>>>> That I didn't know! I just know that between Holly and I we don't
>>>>> have any probblems! She'll stop whebn cars are coming and go
>>>>> around those that park in the middle of the street.
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: "Snow White Dove" <jlperdue3 at gmail.com>
>>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, July 02, 2013 6:19 PM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] pilot dogs traffic checks was Update:
>>>>> Training Programsat NAGDU Meeting
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi Ava,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Pilot dogs does traffic checks while the dogs are in their
>>>>>> training period
>>>>>>
>>>>>> with the trainers, before they get to you.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You're right though, there are plenty of opportunities for the
>>>>>> dog to show
>>>>>>
>>>>>> you it'll stop for traffic during your training itself.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hope this helps.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Jenny
>>>>>> On Jul 2, 2013, at 3:16 AM, avapup.7 at gmail.com wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I've heard this before, that pilot dogs doesn't do traffic checks.
>>>>>>> As I am considering this program for after my Cocoa girl retires
>>>>>>> I'm wondering
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> if it's maybe a difference in terminology? I mean, their dogs
>>>>>>> are trained
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> to stop if a car approaches, right? Like, intelligent disobedience?
>>>>>>> But is it that pilot dogs doesn't set up artificial situations
>>>>>>> for their students where they have a car driven by a staff
>>>>>>> member to test them? I'd
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> think that in Columbus there would be plenty of real life
>>>>>>> traffic checks
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> without setting them up like other schools do! Ugh, Columbus
>>>>>>> traffic! Do
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I have it right or am I thinking of something different? Thanks!!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Ava and Cocoa
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Jul 1, 2013, at 1:24 PM, rhonda cruz
>>>>>>> <rhondaprincess at gmail.com>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> the staff at pilot are good.
>>>>>>>> maybe if we got more grads from pilot they would change there
>>>>>>>> minds, about going to a nfb convention, but i will never know,
>>>>>>>> if i just ask.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Jul 1, 2013, at 7:04 AM, Star Gazer wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Sounds like the trainer at Pilot wasn't briefed properly
>>>>>>>>> before giving
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> her
>>>>>>>>> presentation.
>>>>>>>>> Agree with Marsha, the folks in charge at Pilot could have
>>>>>>>>> calmed her down and used it as a learning opportunity.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
>>>>>>>>> Marsha Drenth
>>>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, June 29, 2013 3:40 PM
>>>>>>>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog
>>>>>>>>> Users
>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Update: Training Programs at NAGDU
>>>>>>>>> Meeting
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> marion,
>>>>>>>>> When did this happen? I am assuming before you took the
>>>>>>>>> presidency.
>>>>>>>>> Althought there has been those members around since those
>>>>>>>>> time,, before
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> you
>>>>>>>>> took the presidency, the NAGDU is certainly different from
>>>>>>>>> those times
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> too.
>>>>>>>>> its unfortunate that Pilot feels that way, that they feel they
>>>>>>>>> can not participate. I wonder if its graduates urged them to
>>>>>>>>> do so, if they would. I do feel like that is a cop-out.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Marsha drenth
>>>>>>>>> Sent with my IPhone
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Jun 28, 2013, at 6:53 PM, "National Association of Guide
>>>>>>>>> Dog Users"
>>>>>>>>> <blind411 at verizon.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Rhonda,
>>>>>>>>>> Pilot has not been to an NFB convention since I have been an
>>>>>>>>>> officer. When I spoke with Jay Gray to invite him, he said
>>>>>>>>>> Pilot would
>>>>>>>>> never
>>>>>>>>>> attend another convention because it was his opinion one of
>>>>>>>>>> his trainers
>>>>>>>>> was
>>>>>>>>>> embarrassed at a meeting. I don't remember the incident, but
>>>>>>>>>> he said the trainer was asked about traffic checks and she
>>>>>>>>>> said Pilot did not do
>>>>>>>>> traffic
>>>>>>>>>> checks. Apparently, the president at the time was very
>>>>>>>>>> surprised and exclaimed, "You don't do traffic checks?"
>>>>>>>>>> According to someone else that
>>>>>>>>> was
>>>>>>>>>> there, this is how it happened and a rather strong discussion
>>>>>>>>>> of the importance of traffic checks followed. I told Mr. Gray
>>>>>>>>>> that I felt it
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> was
>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>> reasonable question and couldn't imagine not doing traffic
>>>>>>>>>> checks while assuring him that, in spite of the fact that our
>>>>>>>>>> members can be very assertive, I would never allow anyone to
>>>>>>>>>> insult another nor treat anyone with disrespect or in an
>>>>>>>>>> undignified manner. Pilot has still not chosen to attend our
>>>>>>>>>> conventions, though!
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Fraternally yours,
>>>>>>>>>> Marion Gwizdala
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> -----
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