[nagdu] German shepherds and cats

Sun Jul 14 18:07:07 UTC 2013

Hi, All,

Since Tracy has been willing to call a spade a spade, I will add my bit of
testimony to the discussion.  In 2001 I received a female GSD from Fidelco
which had a definite high level prey drive.  She would chase anything that
moved, from actual animals and small children, to flashlight beams, laser
pointers, and sparkles off her metal water bowl or from a metal watch band
or a glass.  And she would not just get a bit distracted, but she would have
a complete meltdown, barking, growling, scrabbling claws crazy to bolt off
and chase whatever the "prey" was.  I returned that dog to the program after
3 months and was given another GSD, a male this time, who turned out to have
serious animal aggression issues and would bolt off after other dogs as well
as cats, birds, and squirrels.  I worked with that dog for just about a
year, but returned him to the school when it got to the point where I was
terrified to go out for a walk with my supposed guide because the risk of
harm to myself, the dog, and to other people and animals was too great.

Both these dogs were passed and graduated by Fidelco and sent out as
exemplary products of the training program.  And I had specifically asked
for a dog which worked well around other animals, as I spent a lot of time
at farms and barns with my riding horses, where there are always loose dogs
and cats, as well as other farm animals.  I was particularly shocked and
disappointed with these two dogs as I always believed, as many people have
said on this list, that guide dog training programs would not put out dogs
with animal aggression or prey drive issues.  And I was assured that Fidelco
did expose their dogs to cats while the dogs were in training and that the
dogs were all good around cats and other animals.  Furthermore, my first
guide dog, a chocolate Labrador retriever, had totally ignored other animals
throughout the nine years of our partnership, so I thought that that was
just what could be expected of a highly-trained and specially-bred guide
dog.  And lest someone say that the dogs were probably perfectly sound when
I received them, but that my poor handling caused them to develop the
problems I had, I will state that the behaviors surfaced early during the
team training period with both dogs and were noted by the instructors.  And
I worked closely with the school's instructors to resolve the problems
during the time these two dogs were with me.  I found out later from one of
the trainers who had partially trained one of the dogs that the trainers had
recommended against that dog going out as a guide but had been overruled by
higher-ups, probably to keep up the percentage of "successful" placements.
Both these dogs were career changed after I returned them to the school,
although they were certainly young enough to be reissued if they had been
found to be sound but simply mismatched.

So, if you get a GSD that gets along well with cats, count your blessings
and consider yourself fortunate.  But be ready for the possibility that
notwithstanding everybody's best efforts and intentions, that there is a
risk of a less-than-perfect outcome, and that the training programs methods
and magic are no guarantee of success and bliss.

By the way, while I believe Fidelco has more of a reputation for putting out
shepherds with animal aggression or prey drive issues than other programs,
they are not the only school that can occasionally put out a dog with these
issues.  My brother has had 3 GSD guides from The Seeing Eye, and at least
one of them had a problem with cats.  In this case, my brother does not have
cats for pets and so he only encountered an occasional problem when their
path crossed that of a cat.  And I'm not saying that it is only GSDs which
can show prey drive or animal aggression.  I'm sure there are cases of Labs
or goldens chasing cats, although I can't think of any that I have
personally known.  And some people have successfully managed the problem or
successfully squelched it when it surfaced, whether the dog was a GSD or
another breed.

Good luck, anyway, and just be aware and watchful of the early signs if they
appear, and don't take anything for granted.

Best,
Ann

-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Tracy Carcione
Sent: Sunday, July 14, 2013 8:27 AM
To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
Subject: Re: [nagdu] German shepherds and cats

I respectfully disagree.  In the past, Fidelco has put out some shepherds
with a high prey drive.
Also, my labrador Echo had some prey drive.  I had to work on her when I
first got her to make her not get so excited about squirrels or cats.  I
broke her of chasing squirrels, at least in harness, but she would still
sometimes chase or bark at my parents' cat.  I don't think she wanted to eat
it, but she did enjoy chasing it.
But, if Kathy mentions the cats to the school she chooses, it shouldn't be a
problem.  I don't have cats, so I didn't say anything about them when I got
Echo.
Also, TSE doesn't seem to have any problem giving anyone a shepherd, if they
feel it's the best match, first-timer or not.
Tracy

----- Original Message -----
From: "Shannon L. Dillon" <shannonldillon at gmail.com>
To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'" 
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Saturday, July 13, 2013 1:04 AM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] German shepherds and cats

>I don't think a school is going to let a shepherd out that has a high pray
> drive. I think that would probably be something that would make it fail as

> a
> guide dog. All the schools I'm aware of have kennel cats that are intended
> for dogs to get used to cats.  So once you bring the dog into your home,
> you'll need to allow time for the animals to adjust to each other. But I
> think that would be the case no matter what animal you brought into your
> house if there is already an animal living there. But I don't think any
> school is going to let a dog out that would hurt your cats. They can't 
> have
> a dog with a high pray drive that takes off after a cat or squirrel in the
> middle of guiding you. They have to be able to ignore distractions.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of melissa R green
> Sent: Friday, July 12, 2013 8:00 PM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] German shepherds and cats
>
> Have you informed the school that you are applying to about your cats.
> They can help to work this out.
> So you won't get a dog that thinks the cat is prey.
>
> Blessings,
> Melissa Green and PJ
> facebook Melissa R Green
> Linkedin www.linkedin.com/in/melissagreen5674
> skype: lissa5674
> Goodreads Melissa Green
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Kathy" <pigwidgin07 at gmail.com>
> To: <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Friday, July 12, 2013 8:45 PM
> Subject: [nagdu] German shepherds and cats
>
>
> Hello everyone.  This is Kathy in Seattle and I am in the middle of
> applying for a guide dog.  I'm waiting for the home visits at this point.
> I agree that one should get the best dog (and breed) for your own unique
> situation but I admit to being quite partial to german shepherds, mostly
> because I grew up with and also owned collies and german shepherd mixes.
> For those of you who have or have had german shepherd guides, have any of
> you had cats in your household?  How did that work out?  With the prey
> drive that some shepherds are known for, I'm concerned about our kitties
> becoming a midnight snack. :)  They are large Ragdolls and incredibly
> sweet, and the last thing I'd want to do is to cause them loads of stress.
> I think in the long haul, they will love having a dog around because they
> sort of act like dogs themselves.  But only if it doesn't eye them with a
> culinary interest.
>
> Thanks for the advice!
>
> Kathy
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