[nagdu] pilot dogs traffic checks was Update: Training Program sat NAGDU Meeting

Mon Jul 15 00:05:55 UTC 2013

this has been my experience as a pilot dog user, my first pilot dog worked for ten and a half years; during the first two weeks of training we had four traffic checks people running red lights and later during her working life we had numeroris traffic situations including a semi truck which could not be seen by a man who told me to cross the street. But she would not go. the truck came around a large truck and trailer parked at the corner blocking the mans view. Mike mezmer a long time trainer said traffic checks were a part of training for all trainers and dogs. I have seen dogs from two other schools make serious traffic mistakes. 
a few years ago a college girl was killed when she was hit at a cross walk she had a gdb dog. 

----- Original Message -----
From: Danielle Antoine <singingmywayin at gmail.com>
To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Date: Wednesday, July 10, 2013 11:03 pm
Subject: Re: [nagdu] pilot dogs traffic checks was Update: Training Program sat NAGDU Meeting

>
>
> But, could it be that they don't know or can't tell the difference
> because they have never had any other experience? Are there any other
> grads who have gone to Pilot after another program on hear? I will say
> that I've been on a few non-school specific lists and as stated
> previously they all seem happy with there training. this is very
> interesting and I don't really have much info nor have I seen any
> working teams from there so I'd like to hear more about Pilot Dogs.
> that's what I've always heard though that they didn't do planned
> traffic checks. Kind of worrisome!
> 
> Danielle
> 
> On 7/10/13, rhonda cruz <rhondaprincess at gmail.com> wrote:
> >  hello may, keeps me safe every time we travel together,
> >  she has done many traffic  checks,
> >  and we work hard to.
> >  i feel pilot did a good job at mamatching us.
> >
> > On Jul 8, 2013, at 12:58 PM, Howard J. Levine wrote:
> >
> >> I agree if a xchool is going to cut back on traffic checks what else are
> >> they cutting back on. You want to know how your guide dog is going ot
> >> react
> >> to problem and keep you safe.
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of National
> >> Association of Guide Dog Users
> >> Sent: Monday, July 08, 2013 3:49 PM
> >> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
> >> Subject: Re: [nagdu] pilot dogs traffic checks was Update: Training
> >> Program
> >> sat NAGDU Meeting
> >>
> >> Rebecca.
> >> 	This may be an issue of not knowing rather than not caring. I
> >> believe traffic checks are an important part of guide dog work and, to
> >> the
> >> best of my knowledge, Pilot is the only guide dog training program that
> >> does
> >> not include them in their training! If Pilot consumers knew how important
> >> they were and that everyone else gets what they do not, perhaps they
> >> would
> >> speak up. Then again, they may be met with the same sort of irrational
> >> excuses other training programs offer us and we are expected to accept
> >> without question! For instance, Pilot may assert that traffic checks are
> >> unnecessary and their consumers are expected to accept this without
> >> question. If they are not important, why does every other program put such
> >> a
> >> major emphasis on them?
> >>
> >> Fraternally yours,
> >> Marion
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Star Gazer
> >> Sent: Monday, July 08, 2013 12:03 PM
> >> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
> >> Subject: Re: [nagdu] pilot dogs traffic checks was Update: Training
> >> Program
> >> sat NAGDU Meeting
> >>
> >> Steve,
> >> The Pilot grads don't seem to mind this though. So why would they speak
> >> up?
> >> To them, it isn't a problem. To me, it's a deal breaker.
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Steven Johnson
> >> Sent: Wednesday, July 03, 2013 7:07 PM
> >> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
> >> Subject: Re: [nagdu] pilot dogs traffic checks was Update: Training
> >> Program
> >> sat NAGDU Meeting
> >>
> >> Deanna, you make an excellent point.  Having a controlled traffic check
> >> can
> >> help the student get prepared for what is inevitable.  Whether it is a
> >> gas
> >> powered car, quiet car, bicycle, skateboard; we can begin to learn and
> >> feel
> >> how our dogs react to those situations.  Sometimes they are slight, and
> >> sometimes, very apparent checks as we all know.  What would be ideal is
> >> for
> >> the Pilot grads to step up and simply make this request.  The more they
> >> hear
> >> from, the more likely they might listen, and a potential change could be
> >> made.
> >>
> >> Steve
> >>
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Deanna Lewis
> >> Sent: Wednesday, July 03, 2013 10:43 AM
> >> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> >> Subject: Re: [nagdu] pilot dogs traffic checks was Update: Training
> >> Programsat NAGDU Meeting
> >>
> >> I am sorry, but I would rather have a trained professional driving a car
> >> and
> >> testing my dog and I, than I would to have a random stranger who is not
> >> paying attention come close to, or actually hitting us. Drivers nowadays
> >> are
> >> so careless and they are always on their cell phones, texting, putting on
> >> makeup, and so forth. They just do not pay attention to pedestrians.
> >> I strongly believe that planned traffic checks are an essential part of
> >> guide dog training.
> >> Deanna and Pascal
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Darla Rogers
> >> Sent: Wednesday, July 03, 2013 11:30 AM
> >> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
> >> Subject: Re: [nagdu] pilot dogs traffic checks was Update: Training
> >> Programsat NAGDU Meeting
> >>
> >> Dear Chantel,
> >>
> >> That is totally ridiculous; I wouldn't want a dog who freaked out with
> >> artificial traffic checks.
> >> Darla & Handsome Huck
> >>
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Chantel
> >> Cuddemi
> >> Sent: Tuesday, July 02, 2013 11:39 PM
> >> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> >> Subject: Re: [nagdu] pilot dogs traffic checks was Update: Training
> >> Programsat NAGDU Meeting
> >>
> >> Guys,
> >>
> >> Students and dogs were freaked out by the artificial traffic checks set
> >> up
> >> by Pilot. I wasn't aware that the dogs go through artificial traffic
> >> checks
> >> before we got them.
> >>
> >> On 7/2/13, Larry D. Keeler <lkeeler at comcast.net> wrote:
> >>> That I didn't know! I just know that between Holly and I we don't have
> >>> any probblems! She'll stop whebn cars are coming and go around those
> >>> that park in the middle of the street.
> >>> ----- Original Message -----
> >>> From: "Snow White Dove" <jlperdue3 at gmail.com>
> >>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
> >>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> >>> Sent: Tuesday, July 02, 2013 6:19 PM
> >>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] pilot dogs traffic checks was Update: Training
> >>> Programsat NAGDU Meeting
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> Hi Ava,
> >>>>
> >>>> Pilot dogs does traffic checks while the dogs are in their training
> >>>> period
> >>>>
> >>>> with the trainers, before they get to you.
> >>>>
> >>>> You're right though, there are plenty of opportunities for the dog to
> >>>> show
> >>>>
> >>>> you it'll stop for traffic during your training itself.
> >>>>
> >>>> Hope this helps.
> >>>>
> >>>> Jenny
> >>>> On Jul 2, 2013, at 3:16 AM, avapup.7 at gmail.com wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> I've heard this before, that pilot dogs doesn't do traffic checks.
> >>>>> As I am considering this program for after my Cocoa girl retires I'm
> >>>>> wondering
> >>>>>
> >>>>> if it's maybe a difference in terminology? I mean, their dogs are
> >>>>> trained
> >>>>>
> >>>>> to stop if a car approaches, right? Like, intelligent disobedience?
> >>>>> But is it that pilot dogs doesn't set up artificial situations for
> >>>>> their students where they have a car driven by a staff member to
> >>>>> test them? I'd
> >>>>>
> >>>>> think that in Columbus there would be plenty of real life traffic
> >>>>> checks
> >>>>>
> >>>>> without setting them up like other schools do! Ugh, Columbus
> >>>>> traffic! Do
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I have it right or am I thinking of something different? Thanks!!
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Ava and Cocoa
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On Jul 1, 2013, at 1:24 PM, rhonda cruz <rhondaprincess at gmail.com>
> >>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> the staff at pilot are good.
> >>>>>> maybe if we got more grads from pilot they would change there
> >>>>>> minds, about going to a nfb convention, but i will never know, if i
> >>>>>> just ask.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> On Jul 1, 2013, at 7:04 AM, Star Gazer wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Sounds like the trainer at Pilot wasn't briefed properly before
> >>>>>>> giving
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> her
> >>>>>>> presentation.
> >>>>>>> Agree with Marsha, the folks in charge at Pilot could have calmed
> >>>>>>> her down and used it as a learning opportunity.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
> >>>>>>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Marsha
> >>>>>>> Drenth
> >>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, June 29, 2013 3:40 PM
> >>>>>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog
> >>>>>>> Users
> >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Update: Training Programs at NAGDU Meeting
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> marion,
> >>>>>>> When did this happen? I am assuming before you took the presidency.
> >>>>>>> Althought there has been those members around since those time,,
> >>>>>>> before
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> you
> >>>>>>> took the presidency, the NAGDU is certainly different from those
> >>>>>>> times
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> too.
> >>>>>>> its unfortunate that Pilot feels that way, that they feel they can
> >>>>>>> not participate. I wonder if its graduates urged them to do so, if
> >>>>>>> they would. I do feel like that is a cop-out.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Marsha drenth
> >>>>>>> Sent with my IPhone
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> On Jun 28, 2013, at 6:53 PM, "National Association of Guide Dog
> >>>>>>> Users"
> >>>>>>> <blind411 at verizon.net> wrote:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Rhonda,
> >>>>>>>> Pilot has not been to an NFB convention since I have been an
> >>>>>>>> officer. When I spoke with Jay Gray to invite him, he said Pilot
> >>>>>>>> would
> >>>>>>> never
> >>>>>>>> attend another convention because it was his opinion one of his
> >>>>>>>> trainers
> >>>>>>> was
> >>>>>>>> embarrassed at a meeting. I don't remember the incident, but he
> >>>>>>>> said the trainer was asked about traffic checks and she said
> >>>>>>>> Pilot did not do
> >>>>>>> traffic
> >>>>>>>> checks. Apparently, the president at the time was very surprised
> >>>>>>>> and exclaimed, "You don't do traffic checks?" According to
> >>>>>>>> someone else that
> >>>>>>> was
> >>>>>>>> there, this is how it happened and a rather strong discussion of
> >>>>>>>> the importance of traffic checks followed. I told Mr. Gray that I
> >>>>>>>> felt it
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> was
> >>>>>>> a
> >>>>>>>> reasonable question and couldn't imagine not doing traffic checks
> >>>>>>>> while assuring him that, in spite of the fact that our members
> >>>>>>>> can be very assertive, I would never allow anyone to insult
> >>>>>>>> another nor treat anyone with disrespect or in an undignified
> >>>>>>>> manner. Pilot has still not chosen to attend our conventions,
> >>>>>>>> though!
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Fraternally yours,
> >>>>>>>> Marion Gwizdala
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> -----
> >>>>>
> >>>>> _______________________________________________
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> >>>>
> >>>>
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