[nagdu] pilot dogs traffic checks was Update: Training Programsat NAGDU Meeting

Larry D. Keeler lkeeler at comcast.net
Mon Jul 15 02:12:21 UTC 2013


Harold, myt dog has never put me in an unsafe situation yet. But, I can see 
why folk might want to have more traffic checks. I get around quite well and 
myself am pretty good at paying attention as well as Holly is. But, I have 
met some folks who really need the practice!
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "harold leigland" <hleigland at bresnan.net>
To: <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Sunday, July 14, 2013 8:05 PM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] pilot dogs traffic checks was Update: Training 
Programsat NAGDU Meeting


> this has been my experience as a pilot dog user, my first pilot dog worked 
> for ten and a half years; during the first two weeks of training we had 
> four traffic checks people running red lights and later during her working 
> life we had numeroris traffic situations including a semi truck which 
> could not be seen by a man who told me to cross the street. But she would 
> not go. the truck came around a large truck and trailer parked at the 
> corner blocking the mans view. Mike mezmer a long time trainer said 
> traffic checks were a part of training for all trainers and dogs. I have 
> seen dogs from two other schools make serious traffic mistakes.
> a few years ago a college girl was killed when she was hit at a cross walk 
> she had a gdb dog.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Danielle Antoine <singingmywayin at gmail.com>
> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users" 
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Date: Wednesday, July 10, 2013 11:03 pm
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] pilot dogs traffic checks was Update: Training 
> Program sat NAGDU Meeting
>
>>
>>
>> But, could it be that they don't know or can't tell the difference
>> because they have never had any other experience? Are there any other
>> grads who have gone to Pilot after another program on hear? I will say
>> that I've been on a few non-school specific lists and as stated
>> previously they all seem happy with there training. this is very
>> interesting and I don't really have much info nor have I seen any
>> working teams from there so I'd like to hear more about Pilot Dogs.
>> that's what I've always heard though that they didn't do planned
>> traffic checks. Kind of worrisome!
>>
>> Danielle
>>
>> On 7/10/13, rhonda cruz <rhondaprincess at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >  hello may, keeps me safe every time we travel together,
>> >  she has done many traffic  checks,
>> >  and we work hard to.
>> >  i feel pilot did a good job at mamatching us.
>> >
>> > On Jul 8, 2013, at 12:58 PM, Howard J. Levine wrote:
>> >
>> >> I agree if a xchool is going to cut back on traffic checks what else 
>> >> are
>> >> they cutting back on. You want to know how your guide dog is going ot
>> >> react
>> >> to problem and keep you safe.
>> >>
>> >> -----Original Message-----
>> >> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of National
>> >> Association of Guide Dog Users
>> >> Sent: Monday, July 08, 2013 3:49 PM
>> >> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
>> >> Subject: Re: [nagdu] pilot dogs traffic checks was Update: Training
>> >> Program
>> >> sat NAGDU Meeting
>> >>
>> >> Rebecca.
>> >> This may be an issue of not knowing rather than not caring. I
>> >> believe traffic checks are an important part of guide dog work and, to
>> >> the
>> >> best of my knowledge, Pilot is the only guide dog training program 
>> >> that
>> >> does
>> >> not include them in their training! If Pilot consumers knew how 
>> >> important
>> >> they were and that everyone else gets what they do not, perhaps they
>> >> would
>> >> speak up. Then again, they may be met with the same sort of irrational
>> >> excuses other training programs offer us and we are expected to accept
>> >> without question! For instance, Pilot may assert that traffic checks 
>> >> are
>> >> unnecessary and their consumers are expected to accept this without
>> >> question. If they are not important, why does every other program put 
>> >> such
>> >> a
>> >> major emphasis on them?
>> >>
>> >> Fraternally yours,
>> >> Marion
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> -----Original Message-----
>> >> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Star Gazer
>> >> Sent: Monday, July 08, 2013 12:03 PM
>> >> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
>> >> Subject: Re: [nagdu] pilot dogs traffic checks was Update: Training
>> >> Program
>> >> sat NAGDU Meeting
>> >>
>> >> Steve,
>> >> The Pilot grads don't seem to mind this though. So why would they 
>> >> speak
>> >> up?
>> >> To them, it isn't a problem. To me, it's a deal breaker.
>> >>
>> >> -----Original Message-----
>> >> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Steven 
>> >> Johnson
>> >> Sent: Wednesday, July 03, 2013 7:07 PM
>> >> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
>> >> Subject: Re: [nagdu] pilot dogs traffic checks was Update: Training
>> >> Program
>> >> sat NAGDU Meeting
>> >>
>> >> Deanna, you make an excellent point.  Having a controlled traffic 
>> >> check
>> >> can
>> >> help the student get prepared for what is inevitable.  Whether it is a
>> >> gas
>> >> powered car, quiet car, bicycle, skateboard; we can begin to learn and
>> >> feel
>> >> how our dogs react to those situations.  Sometimes they are slight, 
>> >> and
>> >> sometimes, very apparent checks as we all know.  What would be ideal 
>> >> is
>> >> for
>> >> the Pilot grads to step up and simply make this request.  The more 
>> >> they
>> >> hear
>> >> from, the more likely they might listen, and a potential change could 
>> >> be
>> >> made.
>> >>
>> >> Steve
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> -----Original Message-----
>> >> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Deanna 
>> >> Lewis
>> >> Sent: Wednesday, July 03, 2013 10:43 AM
>> >> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>> >> Subject: Re: [nagdu] pilot dogs traffic checks was Update: Training
>> >> Programsat NAGDU Meeting
>> >>
>> >> I am sorry, but I would rather have a trained professional driving a 
>> >> car
>> >> and
>> >> testing my dog and I, than I would to have a random stranger who is 
>> >> not
>> >> paying attention come close to, or actually hitting us. Drivers 
>> >> nowadays
>> >> are
>> >> so careless and they are always on their cell phones, texting, putting 
>> >> on
>> >> makeup, and so forth. They just do not pay attention to pedestrians.
>> >> I strongly believe that planned traffic checks are an essential part 
>> >> of
>> >> guide dog training.
>> >> Deanna and Pascal
>> >>
>> >> -----Original Message-----
>> >> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Darla 
>> >> Rogers
>> >> Sent: Wednesday, July 03, 2013 11:30 AM
>> >> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
>> >> Subject: Re: [nagdu] pilot dogs traffic checks was Update: Training
>> >> Programsat NAGDU Meeting
>> >>
>> >> Dear Chantel,
>> >>
>> >> That is totally ridiculous; I wouldn't want a dog who freaked out with
>> >> artificial traffic checks.
>> >> Darla & Handsome Huck
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> -----Original Message-----
>> >> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Chantel
>> >> Cuddemi
>> >> Sent: Tuesday, July 02, 2013 11:39 PM
>> >> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>> >> Subject: Re: [nagdu] pilot dogs traffic checks was Update: Training
>> >> Programsat NAGDU Meeting
>> >>
>> >> Guys,
>> >>
>> >> Students and dogs were freaked out by the artificial traffic checks 
>> >> set
>> >> up
>> >> by Pilot. I wasn't aware that the dogs go through artificial traffic
>> >> checks
>> >> before we got them.
>> >>
>> >> On 7/2/13, Larry D. Keeler <lkeeler at comcast.net> wrote:
>> >>> That I didn't know! I just know that between Holly and I we don't 
>> >>> have
>> >>> any probblems! She'll stop whebn cars are coming and go around those
>> >>> that park in the middle of the street.
>> >>> ----- Original Message -----
>> >>> From: "Snow White Dove" <jlperdue3 at gmail.com>
>> >>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>> >>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> >>> Sent: Tuesday, July 02, 2013 6:19 PM
>> >>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] pilot dogs traffic checks was Update: Training
>> >>> Programsat NAGDU Meeting
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>> Hi Ava,
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Pilot dogs does traffic checks while the dogs are in their training
>> >>>> period
>> >>>>
>> >>>> with the trainers, before they get to you.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> You're right though, there are plenty of opportunities for the dog 
>> >>>> to
>> >>>> show
>> >>>>
>> >>>> you it'll stop for traffic during your training itself.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Hope this helps.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Jenny
>> >>>> On Jul 2, 2013, at 3:16 AM, avapup.7 at gmail.com wrote:
>> >>>>
>> >>>>> I've heard this before, that pilot dogs doesn't do traffic checks.
>> >>>>> As I am considering this program for after my Cocoa girl retires 
>> >>>>> I'm
>> >>>>> wondering
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> if it's maybe a difference in terminology? I mean, their dogs are
>> >>>>> trained
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> to stop if a car approaches, right? Like, intelligent disobedience?
>> >>>>> But is it that pilot dogs doesn't set up artificial situations for
>> >>>>> their students where they have a car driven by a staff member to
>> >>>>> test them? I'd
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> think that in Columbus there would be plenty of real life traffic
>> >>>>> checks
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> without setting them up like other schools do! Ugh, Columbus
>> >>>>> traffic! Do
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> I have it right or am I thinking of something different? Thanks!!
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Ava and Cocoa
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> On Jul 1, 2013, at 1:24 PM, rhonda cruz <rhondaprincess at gmail.com>
>> >>>>> wrote:
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>> the staff at pilot are good.
>> >>>>>> maybe if we got more grads from pilot they would change there
>> >>>>>> minds, about going to a nfb convention, but i will never know, if 
>> >>>>>> i
>> >>>>>> just ask.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> On Jul 1, 2013, at 7:04 AM, Star Gazer wrote:
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> Sounds like the trainer at Pilot wasn't briefed properly before
>> >>>>>>> giving
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> her
>> >>>>>>> presentation.
>> >>>>>>> Agree with Marsha, the folks in charge at Pilot could have calmed
>> >>>>>>> her down and used it as a learning opportunity.
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>> >>>>>>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Marsha
>> >>>>>>> Drenth
>> >>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, June 29, 2013 3:40 PM
>> >>>>>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog
>> >>>>>>> Users
>> >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Update: Training Programs at NAGDU Meeting
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> marion,
>> >>>>>>> When did this happen? I am assuming before you took the 
>> >>>>>>> presidency.
>> >>>>>>> Althought there has been those members around since those time,,
>> >>>>>>> before
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> you
>> >>>>>>> took the presidency, the NAGDU is certainly different from those
>> >>>>>>> times
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> too.
>> >>>>>>> its unfortunate that Pilot feels that way, that they feel they 
>> >>>>>>> can
>> >>>>>>> not participate. I wonder if its graduates urged them to do so, 
>> >>>>>>> if
>> >>>>>>> they would. I do feel like that is a cop-out.
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> Marsha drenth
>> >>>>>>> Sent with my IPhone
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> On Jun 28, 2013, at 6:53 PM, "National Association of Guide Dog
>> >>>>>>> Users"
>> >>>>>>> <blind411 at verizon.net> wrote:
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> Rhonda,
>> >>>>>>>> Pilot has not been to an NFB convention since I have been an
>> >>>>>>>> officer. When I spoke with Jay Gray to invite him, he said Pilot
>> >>>>>>>> would
>> >>>>>>> never
>> >>>>>>>> attend another convention because it was his opinion one of his
>> >>>>>>>> trainers
>> >>>>>>> was
>> >>>>>>>> embarrassed at a meeting. I don't remember the incident, but he
>> >>>>>>>> said the trainer was asked about traffic checks and she said
>> >>>>>>>> Pilot did not do
>> >>>>>>> traffic
>> >>>>>>>> checks. Apparently, the president at the time was very surprised
>> >>>>>>>> and exclaimed, "You don't do traffic checks?" According to
>> >>>>>>>> someone else that
>> >>>>>>> was
>> >>>>>>>> there, this is how it happened and a rather strong discussion of
>> >>>>>>>> the importance of traffic checks followed. I told Mr. Gray that 
>> >>>>>>>> I
>> >>>>>>>> felt it
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> was
>> >>>>>>> a
>> >>>>>>>> reasonable question and couldn't imagine not doing traffic 
>> >>>>>>>> checks
>> >>>>>>>> while assuring him that, in spite of the fact that our members
>> >>>>>>>> can be very assertive, I would never allow anyone to insult
>> >>>>>>>> another nor treat anyone with disrespect or in an undignified
>> >>>>>>>> manner. Pilot has still not chosen to attend our conventions,
>> >>>>>>>> though!
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> Fraternally yours,
>> >>>>>>>> Marion Gwizdala
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> -----
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> _______________________________________________
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>> >>>>
>> >>>>
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