[nagdu] close call
Meghan Whalen
mewhalen at gmail.com
Mon Jul 29 06:01:54 UTC 2013
Thank you for this message, Julie.
As most people know, I trained my last guide from about 12 weeks of age.
He grew up with several other dogs in my home, and he played with many
other dogs as he grew up. He was very friendly towards other dogs.
Sometimes when he was working, if he saw another dog, he would let out a
little woof of excitement, but ht was not aggressive. As he got older,
this behavior subsided and stopped, and he could work past any dog with
no reaction. Then he got attacked. Once in a play group with a few
friends' dogs and their friends' dogs, once at the park and twice while
he was working. The first three encounters left no marks, but they each
left him very jumpy and required a lot of desensatizing on my part. The
fourth time, he was pretty chewed up, and I was never able to get him
over it.
He was only two years old when the last attack happened. I worked with
him for about four months. During that time, he turned three. He was
barking, growling and getting physically ill any time he had to work in
close proximity to other dogs. He was a huge investment of time, heart
and energy, but he was not the same dog I had trained from a little
puppy. He was no longer emotionally sound enough to do the work. Though
it toar my heart out, I recognized that he was not at all what a
well-manored guide should be, so I retired him. We had worked hard
together for almost three years, but several short situations in which
other people were irresponsible with their dogs undid all of our time
together.
It was very sad, but it was one of those time where I couldn't let
anyone else make the decision for me. I couldn't be the woman with the
growly guide dog, so I retired him.
I guess my point is that even though he was a huge training commitment
on my part, I managed him as long as I could after the attacks, but I
never made excuses for him, and I took his behavior into consideration
at all times.
These dogs are our safety and our image when we are out working them,
and it is definitely up to us to handle them properly and not to set
them up for failure. Dayton now lives on 80 acres where he never has to
have the pressure of guiding me again. I miss him like crazy almost
every day, but he is living in the moment. He was only aggressive when
his harness was on, so I took that pressure away from him, and though it
toar out a bit of my soul, I wouldn't have done it any differently.
Please don't make excuses for dogs when they have become a potential
hazard to others. Situations can change them very drastically. Set them
up for success whenever you can.
I probably should have written this when I was more awake, but I hope
the point of my message is in here somewhere.
Meghan
On 7/27/2013 7:44 AM, Julie J. wrote:
> Dog's change over time, just like people do. That dog could have been
> the model citizen of guide dogs at graduation. There's no way to
> predict the future.
>
> Dog attacks from random dogs on the street are a huge, huge
> contributor to a change in personality towards other dogs. You could
> start with a lovely, well behaved and sociable dog. Then have three
> or four nasty encounters with ill behaved beasts and now your lovely
> guide learns to be proactive. No more standing around to see if other
> dogs are nice or safe. Now she'll make it well known that nobody is
> going to mess with her.
>
> How would the school know something like this? How would they be able
> to predict it? How could they prevent it? How could they know better?
>
> Also why shouldn't the handler know better and do the right thing?
>
> We talk a lot here about wanting ownership, wanting to be treated like
> responsible adults, wanting equal treatment and the like. In my
> opinion that means we have to step up to the plate and start acting
> responsibly. That means all the time, even when it's unpleasant or
> hard. I would really like to see a shift in thinking to viewing the
> guide dog schools as a resource, a place where people can go for
> support, ideas, or help with a particular working situation. We have
> to stop relying on them to be the dog police.
>
> When you stop being responsible, you give up a piece of your
> independence. Letting others make decisions for you is letting them
> have power over you. Being an adult means you have to be responsible
> for your actions and those of your dog, all the time, every day, even
> when it's embarrassing or hard or heart wrenching. Kids have the
> benefit of adults to take care of them, to take care of the hard
> decisions and to protect them. Adults do not. We have to start
> acting like adults if we want to be treated like adults.
>
> JMO
> Julie
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message----- From: Howard J. Levine
> Sent: Saturday, July 27, 2013 7:19 AM
> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] close call
>
> Both are the handler and the school, but school should no better and
> do the
> right thing and dog should had never made through the program.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Julie J.
> Sent: Wednesday, July 24, 2013 7:52 PM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] close call
>
> Just out of curiosity, why should it be the school that removes the
> dog from
> being a guide? I'm wondering why the handler shouldn't be the one
> responsible?
>
> Julie
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Howard J. Levine
> Sent: Wednesday, July 24, 2013 6:43 PM
> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] close call
>
> That is not a guide dog and any guide dog would bite person that
> school must
> take that dog out of service atwonce.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Tina Thomas
> Sent: Wednesday, July 24, 2013 11:34 AM
> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
> Cc: judotina48kg at gmail.com
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] close call
>
> Hello Nicole and all- Any dog can become aggressive if not trained and or
> handled properly. In the case of the pit bull, they have been
> mistreated and
> mishandled by unskrupleless handlers who have use the breed for
> monetary
> gain (dog fights). Which is unacceptable and abusive. Also, there
> have been
> a ccounts of other breeds such as Labradors, golden retrievers who have
> attacked for no reason. When I was at convention there were several
> incidences of a dog either attacking another dog and or biting a
> person. One
> incident took place in the lobby of the hotel, where the handler did not
> have hold of the leach and another dog handler was passing by and the dog
> who was lying down while the handler was talking got up and lunged at the
> other dog while barking. Another incident was when I was coming out of an
> elevator and another dog attacked my dog and she had to defend herself.
> However, the worst incident took place when a woman was checking in to
> her
> room and she did not have her dog properly secured and as a young
> woman was
> passing by, the dog jumped over the luggage and preceded to bite the
> young
> woman twice as well as bite another dog. I think we really need to be
> careful not to make assumptions and stereotypes, because all it does is
> cause prejudice and misunderstandings.
> Tina and the girls
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Nicole
> Torcolini
> Sent: Tuesday, July 23, 2013 7:06 PM
> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] close call
>
> Some pit bulls are wonderful lovely dogs, most are, in
> fact...including the
> sweet boy who has his head on my foot right now. Breed specific
> legislation
> is such a mess. Why not work on addressing the lack of training
> instead of
> banning a wonderful breed.
>
> For the reasons stated at this website:
> http://www.dogsbite.org/dangerous-dogs-pit-bull-faq.php.
>
> It sounds like the dogs were on leashes. If the individuals are
> homeless, at
> least they found a way to contain their dogs, even if they couldn't
> afford a
> traditional leash.
>
> I am not trying to stereotype, but it is probably more likely that
> someone
> who is homeless has a pit-bull for protection than for a pet. Also, from
> what I read on the above website, it sounds like the rope leash would not
> have done much good had the pit bulls decided to try to run away from
> their
> owners.
>
> Maybe what needs to happen is breed specific legislation, but those
> who have
> pit bulls who are well trained can somehow get them exempt.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Meghan Whalen
> Sent: Tuesday, July 23, 2013 7:32 AM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] close call
>
> Some pitbulls are wonderful lovely dogs, most are, in fact...including
> the
> sweet boy who has his head on my foot right now. Breed specific
> legislation
> is such a mess. Why not work on addressing the lack of training
> instead of
> banning a wonderful breed.
>
> It sounds like the dogs were on leashes. If the individuals are
> homeless, at
> least they found a way to contain their dogs, even if they couldn't
> afford a
> traditional leash.
>
> It sounds like there was a fence between you guys, regardless what
> happened.
>
> I'm glad you are okay.
>
> Meghan
> On 7/23/2013 4:16 AM, Criminal Justice Major Extraordinaire wrote:
>> hi, all,
>> Sub says it all.
>> A couple of hours ago while I was parking Odie in the north yard, five
> people started walking past us.
>> Two individuals happened to have pit bulls, a breed which is banned in
>> the
> city and county of Denver.
>> Although the dogs were leashed, it wasn't a proper one as my friend
>> Dolly
> described that it was more of a rope type leash.
>> Luckily, no one was hurt, but I found it disturbing that those
>> individuals
> knowing that the pit bull breed is banned would sneak them into the
> county.
>> The group was obviously homeless or just street individuals.
>> Dolly told me that as soon as she saw the pit bulls, she immediately
>> went
> back up the stairs in the lobby.
>> My partner Odie did something which I didn't expect.
>> He knew those dogs weren't nice, so figured for mine and his safety,
>> he
> pulled me over to the other side of the yard.
>> During the incident, one of our residents happened to be outside on
>> the
> sidewalk with her walker and her small chihuhua, Baby.
>> She was very lucky that our building security guard as out there.
>> Although I did notify Denver police about the illegal dogs, I'll still
> have to contact Animal Control, giving that this was the second time
> those
> two dogs were walked by our apartment complex.
>> Dolly told me she saw them yesterday during lunch hour as well.
>> Am glad the iron fence was in between the banned pit bulls, Odie and I.
>> Dolly told me they were smaller than Odie was, but she was concerned
>> for
> her dog, Easter's safety.
>> She did mention that one of her dogs was a pit bull, but properly
>> trained
> to be a well-mannered four-legged furry kid.
>> I just took Odie out a few minutes ago, and we definitely took the
>> garage
> to the south stairwell on up the stairs and out into the south yard
> instead.
>> I wasn't chancing going out to the north yard, given that there's no
> security guards right now.
>> God was watching over Odie and I along with Dale.
>> bibi and son Odie
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