[nagdu] How long is "successful"
Cindy Ray
cindyray at gmail.com
Sat Jun 8 01:49:07 UTC 2013
I am certain statistics are kept on the various matches, for I had two GSDs and neither worked out. I've never received another one. Certainly it helps the school to determine matches for you. Of course, it still is not "rocket science", but I'm guessing the more they know you, the more they can accurately determine the match for you.
CL
On Jun 7, 2013, at 8:40 PM, "Margo and Arrow" <margo.downey at verizon.net> wrote:
> Tracy, I agree. I think there could be good stats on bad matches, dogs
> going out with health problems, etc. I am just attempting to think along
> with you about the ways we can define what success means in order to get
> statistics we'd want. I think you've got a good idea here. Let's all keep
> working on this.
>
> Margo and Arrow
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Tracy Carcione
> Sent: Friday, June 07, 2013 3:09 PM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] How long is "successful"
>
> I'm not comparing it to hospital stays; I was just trying to give an example
> of helpful statistics. Rebecca's example of divorce statistics is a better
> comparison. Nor would I expect it to be the whole picture, more another
> piece of data to use. For instance, when I was choosing a place to get
> trained in computer programming, my first question was "What percentage of
> your graduates got work in the field after completing training?" That's
> another kind of success statistic.
> I feel that stats on bad matches or unhealthy dogs would be helpful to both
> school and prospective student.
> Anyway, I'm sure I've used up my 5 list messages, so I'm off.
> Tracy
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Margo and Arrow" <margo.downey at verizon.net>
> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'"
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Friday, June 07, 2013 2:15 PM
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] How long is "successful"
>
>
>> Tracy, I don't know if we can statistically do this. I'm sure there are
>> ways to do it but I do not believe statistics show the entire opicture and
>
>> I
>> also think comparing this to hospital stays is like comparing apples and
>> oranges.
>>
>> Margoa nd Arrow
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Tracy Carcione
>> Sent: Friday, June 07, 2013 1:19 PM
>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] How long is "successful"
>>
>> I think we're mixing up personal success with statistical success. I'd
>> agree that, on a personal level, getting your dog to do what you want with
>
>> a
>> minimum of effort, and being safe together, constitutes success. But how
>> do
>> you measure that, if you want broad statistics? The only way I can think
>> of
>> is to see how long the team stays together. There will be
>> outliers--people
>> who retired a dog young because of an attack, for instance, but it's the
>> only way I can figure to measure what I want to measure. If someone has a
>> better idea, I'd love to hear it.
>> Now, maybe you don't care. You're happy with your dog and your school,
>> and
>> that's all that counts. I can dig that. But I'd also like some level of
>> assurance that, when I go to class, I have the best chance of getting a
>> dog
>> I can work with for a long time. Right now, all a person can do is talk
>> to
>> other people from their school of choice and see how they've done. I just
>> wonder if there isn't some more objective measure that could be added into
>> the mix, to give the prospective student another way to compare schools,
>> and
>> to show schools if their training is working as well as they would like.
>> After all, the hospital I work for analyzes data on bad outcomes, so we
>> can
>> do better.
>> Tracy
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Larry D. Keeler" <lkeeler at comcast.net>
>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Friday, June 07, 2013 12:42 PM
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] How long is "successful"
>>
>>
>>> Well, the point is that in my neighborhood, I know where those small
>>> curbs are at. She does stop at the big ones and whenever there are
>>> obstacles in the way. But, for me, the little ones where I live are
>>> not that important so I don't get on Holly to do them. I could have
>>> but its really not that important. Some folks might not consider that
>>> successful but, i don't really mind. I do care if obstacles are there
>>> and if she didn't stop for them! Some folks will tolerate there dogs
>>> eating things they shouldn't or sniffing other folks for example. What
>>> I consider successful is that if I want Holly to do something, I can get
>> her to do it with a minimum of fuss.
>>> If I want her to stop at those little curbs, she will! And, if we are
>>> somewhere that I don't know, she will anyway. I guess success for me
>>> is knowing what your dog will do when you do something and what your
>>> dog knows you will do! And, if your dog listens to your commands and
>>> you listen to the dog.
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Star Gazer" <pickrellrebecca at gmail.com>
>>> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'"
>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Friday, June 07, 2013 11:25 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] How long is "successful"
>>>
>>>
>>>> Larry,
>>>> Your post about your dog not stopping at curbs as a good example of how
>>>> difficult this is to deal with.
>>>> Reading your post, I was thinking "I couldn't deal with that behavior".
>>>> Y
>>>> Ou feel differently. You love your dog. You and she have a history. I
>>>> don't
>>>> know your dog, and have no history with her.
>>>> I'm wondering if the statistics used on marriage and divorce rates would
>>>> serve as a good model?
>>>> We all know people who have been married for 60 years and are miserable.
>>>> Yet, for all kinds of reasons they stay married.
>>>> Likewise, we all know marriages that ended quickly for any number of
>>>> reasons.
>>>> And as with dogs, we all have a friend where we think "How does she put
>>>> up
>>>> with *that*".
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Larry D.
>>>> Keeler
>>>> Sent: Friday, June 07, 2013 11:19 AM
>>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] How long is "successful"
>>>>
>>>> Aggreed! My point is that too many variables exist to have a perfect
>>>> team.
>>>> You have to use some kind of continuum scale to measure. And, what
>>>> success
>>>> if for one is not the same as it is for another. If you use saftey as
>>>> you're
>>>> standard most folks I know at least have that covered.
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Margo and Arrow" <margo.downey at verizon.net>
>>>> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'"
>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Friday, June 07, 2013 10:53 AM
>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] How long is "successful"
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Well, I'd say that even if a team works for one month and does well,
>>>>> they're successful. I say this because after one gets home, things
>>>>> could happen.
>>>>> Dogs get sick, humans get sick, dogs die, humans die, circumstances
>>>>> change, etc., etc., etc.
>>>>>
>>>>> I just don't think we can put too much of a figure on it. I figure,
>>>>> though, one can begin to tell how successful a team is after they get
>>>>> home and work a bit. One can also tell during class if a team might
>>>>> be successful or not.
>>>>>
>>>>> Margoa nd Arrow
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Tracy
>>>>> Carcione
>>>>> Sent: Friday, June 07, 2013 8:04 AM
>>>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>>>> Subject: [nagdu] How long is "successful"
>>>>>
>>>>> Darla asked how long a team has to be out to be "successful". I'd say
>>>>> at least 2 years, just to put a number on it. Or possibly 3; I could
>>>>> argue either way.
>>>>> I'd be real curious to see numbers from schools of teams graduated,
>>>>> and partnerships that lasted 3 years or more. I think that should be a
>>>>> pretty good indicator as to how well the school is doing. I mean, if
>>>>> school X put out 500 teams, and 300 of them stayed together, that's
>>>>> only a 60% success rate, and not so good. But if 400 of them worked 3
>>>>> years or more, that's 80% success, which is pretty good.
>>>>> Tracy
>>>>>
>>>>>
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