[nagdu] [nard] The Differences in Dogs and Canes

Fri Jun 28 16:17:29 UTC 2013

Carol,

I carry my folding cane with me all the time. It is always in my backpack. I will use when I find myself in a situation where I am somewhere that I have not been before, and am very unfamiliar with the layout.
To explain better, I got off the bus yesterday and was going to a community center I have not been to. I found there was no sidewalk. I thought I could follow the curb with Cass, but there were cars parked on both sides of the street. Rather than stress out Cass because I was nervous, I heeled the girl, whipped out my cane and used to guide me through the cars and other dead ends along the way. I don't like to not be able to give good directions to the girl if I don't know where I am. It is different if it is somewhere we have been before and I get confused, she can figure it out.
Like someone else said earlier, I use the cane to pattern the girl in every new situation. The difference is, I do not use the harness handle when I do. I will always heel her. After we have done that, I will return to the beginning and pick up the harness handle and go ahead like normal working time. Oh, I almost forgot, I will also give her kibble rewards along the way when we are patterning the route so she will remember where I want her to go. It has worked each and every time I have done this.
This is the way she was apparently trained by her trainers at GDB, and the way they instructed me to train her.
When I am a good papa, I try to remember to use my clicker too. The only problem is I am not very coordinated all the time, no, make that most of the time. I do good to put one foot in front of the other most of the time. But sometimes I will remember to use the clicker and she responds wonderfully to this.
So, to make a long story short, I strongly recommend using the cane with your guide, just not when working.

You can always contact me off list if you have any questions, and I would happy to explain further. Hope this is helpful.

Daniel and Cass
Lakewood, Colorado
Daniel.sweeney1 at comcast.net

-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Carol Osmar
Sent: Friday, June 28, 2013 7:54 AM
To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
Subject: Re: [nagdu] [nard] The Differences in Dogs and Canes

As a potential dog user, I have a question.  Is it ever 
recommended to use a cane while with your dog to locate the 
things you mentioned, or would that somehow undermine the 
trusting partnership you have with your dog?

Carol

 ----- Original Message -----
From: "Julie J." <julielj at neb.rr.com
To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog 
Users" <nagdu at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Fri, 28 Jun 2013 07:30:32 -0500
Subject: Re: [nagdu] [nard] The Differences in Dogs and Canes

There are mobility things a cane can accomplish more easily than 
a dog.
Finding the fourth sidewalk after the mailbox is tough with a 
dog, but a
breeze with a cane.  Finding the mailbox in the first place is 
easier with a
cane.  Mingling in a crowd is easier with a cane.  Dogs just want 
to go
around and will avoid taking you up to clusters of people.  As 
was mentioned
earlier, finding and standing in line is tough with a dog.  Odd 
situations
you haven't encountered before are easier with a cane, for 
example the weird
steps to the curb and street that I described a few months ago.  
Any
information from echolocation from the tap of the cane tip is 
virtually
nonexistent with a dog.  Getting information about your immediate
surroundings, like am I walking past a flower bed or a giant mud 
puddle, is
easier with a cane.  Knowing what surface you are about to step 
onto before
taking that first step is way easier with a cane.  Ever take a 
step onto a
brick road early on a fall morning after a frost?  It is slick 
and a dog
can't see any ice.

Julie

-----Original Message-----
From: Raven Tolliver
Sent: Thursday, June 27, 2013 10:56 PM
To: nagdu at nfbnet.org
Subject: Re: [nagdu] The Differences in Dogs and Canes

Hi,
I do not view the cane or cane users negatively.  I would never 
say
that I am better than cane users as a collective because I뭢 sure
there are people who travel more efficiently with their cane than 
I do
with my dog.  But apart from handlers/users, guide dogs simply do 
more
than canes do.  That is a fact, not an opinion.
It is a personal choice, just as what kind of dog, car, phone, or
laptop people decide to obtain, or what school people decide to
attend.  Everyone will make their ultimate decisions based on 
needs,
wants, affordability, and ability to handle.
However, I will stand firm that the guide dog is a better 
mobility aid
because it has more capabilities and is more precise.  No one has
disputed this fact with evidence or explanations.
I understand there are advantages and disadvantages to 
everything, but
that does not mean all things are on some neutral ground.  Some 
cars
are better than others, some phones are better than others, and 
some
foods are better than others, regardless of what people can 
afford,
are willing to put up with, or are able to handle.
I am sorry if anyone finds this offensive.  My intentions are 
simply to
debate and share thought-provoking ideas, not to stir up trouble 
or
cause some kind of divide.

--
Raven

Original Message:
From: "Star Gazer" <pickrellrebecca at gmail.com
To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,       the National Association of Guide 
Dog
        Users'" <nagdu at nfbnet.org
Subject: Re: [nagdu] The Differences in Dogs and Canes

You obviously view the cane as negative, your posts are full of 
negative
language.  You yourself have said you hate the cane.  That 
baffles me, as the
cane doesn't feel anything about you, one way or another.
You are entitled to your opinion, just realize it is exactly 
that, your
opinion.

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