[nagdu] Use of Canes while at Guide Dog Training Programs; was: RE: The Differences in Dogs and Canes

Sun Jun 30 01:48:12 UTC 2013

I received my first guide in the summer of 1997. At that time, GDF preferred students not to use canes in the building. However, when I returned in 2005, I heard nothing about canes. The same was true last August when I got my third dog. I used my cane in the building in both 2005 and 2012. No one said anything about it one way or another. Some students chose not to use a cane, but there were a number of us who did.

I agree that running into things or falling down flights of stairs doesn't make anyone look dignified. It also wouldn't do much to instill confidence.

Hopefully, training programs are becoming a bit less rigid when it comes to cane policies. Obviously, I can only speak of my own experience at GDF.

Shannon and Ace
Shannon Dyer
Alumni Council Member,
Guide Dog Foundation for the Blind, Inc
®  and
America's VetDogs®,  The Veteran's K-9 Corps Inc ®
Providing "Second Sight" ® since 1946
371 E. Jericho Turnpike, Smithtown, NY 11787
Office: 631-930-9000, Toll-free: 866-282-8047
solsticesinger at gmail.com
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On Jun 29, 2013, at 4:01 PM, Ann Edie <annedie at nycap.rr.com> wrote:

> Hi, All,
> 
> It is my understanding that The Seeing Eye traditionally used to insist that
> people go without their canes from the time they arrived at the school for
> class.  I think the theory was that it was supposed to prepare you
> psychologically for beginning your partnership with the guide dog, or
> something like that.  It was supposed to point up the contrast between
> feeling dependent and fearful when traveling without any mobility aid, and
> the new feeling of freedom and grace that came with picking up the guide
> harness for the first time.  I think they still assume or strongly urge that
> people give up their canes when they come into class.  Many of us have
> always thought that this is an unwise policy, especially when you have 20 or
> more blind people walking through the halls and rooms of the facility in the
> days before people get their dogs and in the days when you are heeling the
> dog and not yet working them within the building.  But I suppose the worst
> case scenario could be that there could be a good train wreck with multiple
> canes, people, and leashed dogs all getting tangled up!
> 
> Recently, my brother was in class at the Seeing Eye.  This was during the
> renovation of the residence building, and so the students were housed in a
> local hotel.  My brother insisted that he was not going to walk through this
> unfamiliar environment without his cane and with a new, young, large,
> unharnessed dog in tow, especially when, unlike the main residence building,
> here there would not be any instructors strategically positioned along the
> routes between the dining room and park area and the bedrooms, to help avert
> any impending mishaps.  The instructor told him that they thought it did not
> look dignified for the guide dog users to be using canes to find their way
> around.  My brother told the instructor that it looked far less dignified
> for the blind people to be bumping into walls and other objects, falling
> down stairs, etc.  It almost came to a showdown where he was either going to
> go without a cane or go home without getting a dog at all.  But finally they
> relented and gave him a short, thin, identification cane to use until it was
> permitted to work the dog in the building.  But I think he was the only
> student who insisted on having a cane to use.
> 
> When his class was over, he asked the brand of the cane he had borrowed,
> because he thought he might want to get one to keep in his pack just in case
> of need.  They said it had been around for so long that the brand name was
> unreadable and they had no records of where it came from.  Evidently, no one
> else had ever insisted on using a cane, so they gave him that one to keep.
> They absolutely refused to let him use the regular cane he came to the
> school with.  I guess they were afraid it would hurt or frighten the dog and
> cause it to lose confidence.  Seems like nonsense to me, but they're the
> experts, right?
> 
> I know that when I was at the Seeing Eye in the early 1990's, when we were
> doing "country work", (walking along roads without sidewalks),  we were
> taught to use our left foot to step sideways behind the dog to check on how
> close or far away we were from the edge of the roadway.  Now I hear that
> some programs, perhaps even TSE?, are having the students check with their
> canes either behind or in front of the dog to see how far from the road's
> edge they are.
> 
> (Is the freedom to use a cane at the guide dog programs before or even after
> receiving the guide dog one of the items listed in the Guide Dog Users Bill
> of Rights?  I don't remember reading that.  If it's not there, perhaps it
> should be added.)  It would be interesting to hear the various guide dog
> schools' policies on the use of canes by guide dog handlers, both when they
> are in class and when at home working with their guide dogs.
> 
> Best,
> Ann
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Nicole Torcolini
> Sent: Saturday, June 29, 2013 11:22 AM
> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] The Differences in Dogs and Canes
> 
> Yikes, someone telling you to go without a mobility aide, is that what I am
> understanding? I certainly move around with neither dog nor cane in certain
> areas, but they are areas that I know well. When I received Lexia, we
> sometimes heeled our dogs when moving around the building. At these times,
> we used our canes. Somehow, I never got frustrated with the
> why-is-my-dog-stopping thing, but that is different for everyone. Maybe
> because I had talked to several people about using a guide dog before
> getting one, but that is beside the point. If having the cane around to help
> problem solve works well for someone, especially in the beginning, that
> there is no reason that that should not be around.
> When learning new areas, I usually have a sighted person to help me, so I
> don't use my cane that much, but, if I did not have sighted assistance , I
> most certainly would use my cane in those situations, especially if it
> included finding an object that the dog usually regards as an obstacle.
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Raven Tolliver
> Sent: Friday, June 28, 2013 11:46 PM
> To: nagdu
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] The Differences in Dogs and Canes
> 
> Carol,
> Yes, it is recommended to use your cane for patterning your dog and
> familiarizing them to routes and landmarks.
> Personally, I did this a lot when I returned to college with my dog.
> Of course, I had massive trust issues.
> The following feelings and statements are about the particular guide dog
> program I attended. I have not extensively discussed multiple aspects of
> other programs, so I will not make claims and comments out of ignorance.
> During my class at my program, we were advised on the first night to start
> walking around without our canes. I brushed this off and forgot all about
> it, till I was reminded the next afternoon, since that was the day before we
> would receive our dogs. Personally, I felt naked.
> All my life, I considered my cane as a part of my body. Since I was
> three-years-old, I had been using a cane. I did not use it everywhere all of
> the time, but to familiarize myself with any location, I definitely used my
> cane at first. I still feel like the program was faulty in that aspect.
> These are guide dog instructors, not mobility instructors. They obviously
> were not familiar with what the cane means, what it does, and the
> relationship between it and its users.
> Maybe everyone wasn't so hard pressed to let theirs go, but I was while I
> was in class, and for about the next three months after I left school.
> What I think they should do is have the student keep their cane with them
> during the first week with their dog. The students shouldn't use the cane
> because that would interfere with the dog; but when a hiccup concerning
> making a turn or obstacle clearance occurs, the student could use the cane
> to find out what is happening. For instance, I was on a walk at the school,
> proceeding down the sidewalk, and my dog started moving over to the right.
> Unfamiliar with moving laterally with my dog, I immediately stopped, then
> told him forward. Again, he started curving right. I was perplexed by this
> and just stood there and asked my instructor what was going on. She informed
> me that the dog was clearing the side of an outdoor enclosure, and that I
> needed to follow him. Okay, that's cool, but it would have been nice to have
> used my cane to figure out what in the blazes my dog was doing. Also, for
> curbs, construction barrels, and so on, it would have been nice to use my
> cane first, then reach out or forward with my right arm or one of my feet to
> realize that I can gather the same information using a different method.
> During this incident with the outdoor enclosure, I was exposed to my dog's
> sassiness in harness. If I wouldn't allow him to clear an obstacle, he would
> just stop, back up, and let out a throaty sigh as if to say: "Okay Lady, are
> you gonna let me do my job, or are you the guide for this team?" This
> occurred more than I would like to say after I returned to my college
> campus. I knew where everything was, and he had to figure it out, and I had
> to somehow, teach him all of it and still allow him to guide me. This was a
> great challenge. There were angled sidewalks, forked sidewalks, places where
> we had to walk in the road and follow angled paths, and plazas to cross.
> Whenever turning was possible, there were always three or four options, and
> my dog always thought turning right was the correct path. It did not matter
> if I said "forward" or "left," the path off to the right was his choice. Why
> was he so stubborn? Back at school, things had never been this hard or
> challenging.
> My mobility instructor was extremely understanding. She had so much
> experience and had seen dozens of people through their transitions from
> being cane users to guide dog travelers. She already  knew of my trust
> issues before I opened my mouth or walked with my dog under her watchful
> eye. She encouraged me to carry my cane, but not use it on our first walk.
> That was fine; the route was simple. But as the routes had more spins thrown
> in, I became more and more frustrated. I resorted to pulling out my cane and
> heeling for some of the routes, tapping landmarks and teaching him the way
> with my cane. My instructor then advised me to start using my clicker, which
> by the way, I think we only spent about two or three days on back at the
> school. That was not long enough for it to stand out in the flurry of things
> I had learned.
> The clicker worked like a magic wand. He got excited when he saw it.
> When he did things correctly and got a click and reward, he was pleased and
> eager to do what I commanded. It made targeting and patterning easier.
> I think if my guide dog program had weaned students off the cane, rather
> than telling us to just walk around without it, this trust thing might not
> have been so bad. That's questionable, especially considering I was
> completely unfamiliar and inexperienced with communicating with dogs. It
> also would have been nice if the school had taken the students to a college
> campus to get the experience of traveling with a guide dog in such an area.
> Okay, done rambling for now. I just thought it would be somewhat valuable to
> share my experiences and get those things off my chest.
> Phew!
> 
> --
> Raven
> 
> Original Message:
> Sent: Fri, 28 Jun 2013 05:54:10 -0800
> From: Carol Osmar <osmarc at sbcglobal.net>
> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,        the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>        <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] [nard] The Differences in Dogs and Canes
> 
> As a potential dog user, I have a question.  Is it ever recommended to use a
> cane while with your dog to locate the things you mentioned, or would that
> somehow undermine the trusting partnership you have with your dog?
> 
> Carol
> 
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