[nagdu] what do you consider an attack?

Thu May 9 22:11:28 UTC 2013

Larry,

Maybe that's it with Mitzi, too. She loves her small fluffy play 
buddies. Fortunately, she has never tried turning on into a squeaky toy! 
/lol/ But definitely, even her "let's play!" bark when she's in her work 
clothes is not okay, so I really wish she wouldn't do it especially when 
she's surprised to see one in a store. She doesn't even do it every 
time. Which is good, since there are small dogs in Dad's retirement 
center which I only know about by hearing them mentioned as opposed to 
because I have a sudden need to toss the poodle out a window. /lol/

Tami

On 05/09/2013 12:07 PM, Larry D. Keeler wrote:
> Tami, that's my probblem! Holly loves those little fluffy dogs! She sees
> one and it sure is hard to keep her from wanting to play!  Maybe they
> look like squeaky toys?
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tami Jarvis" <tami at poodlemutt.com>
> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Thursday, May 09, 2013 2:31 PM
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] what do you consider an attack?
>
>
>> Julie,
>>
>> Interesting questions! Hm... I would consider an attack to be genuine
>> aggression that resulted in significant physical interference or
>> injury. So far, we've only had that from a couple of min pins (motto:
>> death to all poodles!) who were leashed and just obnoxious at the end
>> of the leash. And a chihuahua or two. The result is that Mitzi will
>> still react when startled to small, fluffy bouncy dogs in places where
>> they may or may not be service dogs... Of course, once she vocalizes,
>> then I need to deal with her so can't worry about whether the other
>> dog is legit if not as strictly handled as the poodle monster would
>> like. Sigh. I know it's just her schooling snark, but she can't be
>> doing that in public, so she must settle down. In some cases, I do
>> have opportunity to notice that just because the other dog is on a
>> leash does not mean it is under control! Fortunately, we do not run
>> across this often, and it's only when we've all been super stressed
>> that Mitzi has her issues and talks about them.
>>
>> I think because I like to hang around dogs and because we've spent a
>> lot of time around other dogs, I generally can get a feel for an
>> approaching dog, and I trust what Mitzi tells me. So minor greeting
>> interference isn't terribly upsetting for either of us. I listen for
>> the human, too, if a dog is vocalizing. You can get a better indicator
>> of what a dog might do from its human sometimes. So I know a lot of
>> the Portland crowd throw fits over all the dogs of the homeless on the
>> streets, seeming to assume all to be vicious. However, the few times
>> we have passed such when the dog was making scary noises, I could hear
>> a human calming the dog and controlling it so had no fear. When the
>> human reacts aggressively towards the dog or there is no human
>> reacting to a possibly threatening dog, then I feel some worry! Even
>> so, I just take a deep breath and encourage Mitzi to keep moving, so
>> there we go. So far, so good. I think with dogs that have caused
>> concern and cause Mitzi to dance a little extra, I just rely on my
>> alpha B thing as I do with iffy humans. The Look is useful in many
>> situations. And because I've spent so much time in dog parks around
>> many types of dogs, Mitzi speaks the languages of many breeds and
>> knows The Look herself. She's not the super dominant type of alpha B,
>> but she does have a way of ruling without necessarily appearing to.
>> /smile/
>>
>> Anyway, don't know if that really answers. I think you're right that
>> for a guide dog user who can't see the body language behind surface
>> behavior and vocalizations, and knowing the possibility of dog attack
>> and what it could mean for one's guide even if it's relatively
>> minor... Well, it's extra scary! I would also think an individual's
>> reaction would depend a lot on local dog culture... In my stomping
>> grounds, it's a pretty good bet dogs are well-socialized and
>> responsibly handled. The ones I need to worry about are the
>> exceptions. So I can stay calmer, which is a good way to keep anything
>> from escalating, because of statistics. In other areas, it is probably
>> a better bet that a random dog deserves concern... I've been in a few
>> of those areas and have to work harder at staying calm and
>> transferring that to my dog. So if I lived where I regularly traveled
>> those sorts of scary dog zones, I would probably be a basket case!
>>
>> Tami
>>
>>
>>
>> On 05/09/2013 09:14 AM, Julie J. wrote:
>>> We often talk about dog attacks on this list, but perhaps what I
>>> categorize as an attack is different from others definition.  So I’m
>>> asking, what do you consider an attack?
>>>
>>> Is it: a dog coming toward your dog
>>> a dog coming toward your dog growling/barking
>>> a dog coming close enough to sniff your dog
>>> a dog coming into physical contact with your dog, nose, tongue or feet
>>> a dog who bites, but does not break the skin with or without
>>> pain/bruising
>>> a dog who draws blood with a bite
>>> or something else?
>>>
>>> Does the intent of the other dog make a difference?  For example it
>>> is fairly common for dogs to jump on each other and slobber all over
>>> each other during rough play.  But jumping on another dog could
>>> definitely be aggression in different circumstances.  Granted it is
>>> often extremely difficult to gauge a loose dog’s intent without being
>>> able to watch their body language.
>>>
>>> Would you consider a situation to be an attack if the other dog
>>> approaches friendly, but your dog doesn’t appreciate it and reacts
>>> causing the situation to escalate?
>>>
>>> Curiously,
>>> Julie
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>>
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