[nagdu] {Disarmed} Fake Service Dogs, Real Problem | Cesar Millan

Mon May 27 02:16:09 UTC 2013

Tami,
	As for your legislature's interest in creating a statute that would
require identification, you may want to get in touch with your Attorney
General's office which will advise the legislature on this issue to let them
know that such a law would not be enforceable. If such a bill is introduced,
do not hesitate to let NAGDU advocate on your behalf!

Fraternally yours,
Marion

-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Tami Jarvis
Sent: Friday, May 24, 2013 1:34 PM
To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
Subject: Re: [nagdu] {Disarmed} Fake Service Dogs, Real Problem | Cesar
Millan

Buddy,

Hey, thanks! It is always great for an owner-trainer to get to hear a more
traditional guide dog user state all of those points so well. 
Including the "Grrrr...." which has become about my first and only thought
on the subject of ID and certification. I understand why people think about
it and wonder if it might help... Apparently, in my state, I need to write
letters to legislators to counter a push for that on the subject. Yikes! I
am told I just need to accept that I should spend travel time and money for
professional blessing to have a legal certification like all of those who
have one from their guide dog program. Um...

Dealing with the frauds themselves more decisively than we do would be a
great first start, I think. Also with the behavioral problems, because that
seems to me to be the *real* problem. If little Fluffy is in the grocery
store behaving like an angel, then I do not care if Fluffy is also task
trained because Joe Blow her handler has a hidden disability. 
I suppose if I discovered Joe Blow was able-bodied and Fluffy was just a
real nice pet, I would be morally offended on some level. But I have enough
problems to solve without making Fluffy one of them. The grocery store's
rights are being more violated there than mine, but should we have someone
at the door demanding proof of disability? Should that include the nature of
the disability or information about the doctor that would give away
something that would create trouble from whomever looked at the card? Say
Fluffy is a seizure alert dog and Joe Blow just had to reveal that to
someone who still believes that means he is demon possessed? I realize we
guide dog users get all sorts of weirdness because of attitudes towards
blindness, and it's hard to hide so we have to deal. I'm just not sure that
requiring those with "hidden disabilities" to bring more of that sort of
things on themselves is something I want to push for.

So I'm for ongoing education, formal and informal. I'm for penalties for bad
behavior, real enforcement for fraud... I would rather bring it down to
cases so that frauds start to realize they can't just get away with it. That
won't stop all of them, but it would start to cut things down
-- or so I think. /smile/

Tami
On 05/24/2013 08:35 AM, Buddy Brannan wrote:
> Grrrrrr
.
>
> Here's a guide dog school representative saying that there *is* a
"certified service dog", and the best way to get one os to go to a school.
Wrong on both counts; schools are great, but there are plenty of well
trained non-school service dogs. Plnty of awful ones too, but there are
plenty of awful school ones, so
 Oh, and let's not even talk about the whole
"leave it to the experts, they know best" attitude.
>
> Anyway, here's what I posted on another list about this subject. The
references to a previous Email aren't very important.
>
> Hi Angie,
>
> This points up a problem I've observed for a while now. Well, a couple of
things, really. First, an observation. I observe that there are some service
dog users (mostly from guide dog schools, though I suspect that this is not
exclusively so) who believe that the problems outlined in your Email below
would be solved by a nationally recognized service dog certification. I
don't happen to be one such, for a variety of reasons that I won't enumerate
here. Suffice to say I think that such a certification would create more
problems than it would solve.
>
> My second observation is that we, as a community, meaning service dog
users, have done a pretty good job of educating business owners, and the
general public, that we are allowed by law to be accompanied by individually
trained service animals. However, there are two areas that we've not done as
well in, and I commend you, Angie, for doing your part  to fill that void.
>
> 1) As we know, the law states that we are allowed to be accompanied by 
> a service animal individually trained, blah blah blah. The law does 
> not confer any rights to the animal, rather, these rights are for the 
> disabled person to be accompanied by the animal. Thus, when someone 
> says "This is service dog, it is allowed to go anywhere in public", 
> this statement is incorrect. It is the handler, not the dog, who has 
> the right of accompaniment. My non-disabled sister would not have the 
> right to bring Leno to her hair appointment because Leno was not 
> specifically trained for her use, and, moreover, she doesn't have a 
> disability. Put another way, Leno doesn't have the right to be 
> anywhere that the general public is invited
without me. People often 
> gloss over this distinction, but it's an important one, and especially 
> important when we're talking about these people who would pass off 
> their dogs as service dogs when they themselves don't have, and don't 
> claim to have, any disabilities. So, we
got half the message across, but, whether through our not communicating it
clearly or willful ignorance, an important distinction is often
missed
sometimes by us, and certainly by the general public. So, please,
when educating others of your rights, be mindful of the distinction: your
dog doesn't have any rights, you do.
>
> 2) In this respect, I think we've all fallen down on the job. Business 
> owners do not understand that our rights to be accompanied by a 
> service dog ***are not absolute***. We've done a great job, now people 
> understand that service dogs are OK. Loud and clear. However, those 
> rights are not absolute, as Angie illustrates perfectly below. As she 
> also illustrates perfectly, this fact is not well, if at all, 
> understood. Service dog or not, if our dog is disruptive or 
> substantially alters the delivery of goods or services, that dog may 
> be removed from the establishment. Of course, the business owner had 
> better be able to document the nature of the disruption, destruction, 
> or what have you, and it doesn't matter if your growling, lunging dog 
> is service dog or not t that point. This doesn't give business owners 
> the right to have your dog removed if it's ugly and messes with the 
> decor or something like that. Point is, rights are important, both for 
> us and for businesses. But as important are
responsibilities, both for us and for businesses. I'm not sure how we can
better educate on this, but I think we'll have to figure out how.
> --
> Buddy Brannan, KB5ELV - Erie, PA
> Phone: (814) 860-3194 or 888-75-BUDDY
>
>
>
> On May 24, 2013, at 11:04 AM, James Alan Boehm <jimmydagerman80 at gmail.com>
wrote:
>
>> Hello friends.
>> I came accross this article and wanted your thoughts. I know may have
pushed legislation that denies a companiy to ask for cerification of a
service dog. One issue that has encouraged businesses and such to ask for
verification is due to the fact that many abuse and claim their dog is a
service dog- a dog who has no training. The dog will behave
inappropriately,making it more difficult for those who have legitimate guide
dogs. Further, the handler who takes his pet friend and claims the animal is
a service animal, has no training themselves as to how to a service animal
as well as the laws and do's and don'ts of public mobility. This makes it
again much more difficult for us I feel. Whay are your thoughts? Is there
any programs or action being taken to try to make it more difficult for
people to abuse the system?
>> Best,
>> James
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>> DOG TRAINING
>> Fake Service Dogs, Real Problem
>>
>>
>>
>> By Brian Fischler
>>
>> The Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA) website defines service animals
as dogs that are individually trained to do work or perform tasks for people
with disabilities. That’s a very clear, concise definition.
>>
>> So why does an online ad elsewhere read, “Identification for your service
dog will reduce conflict. Get yours before the law changes!”
>>
>> It’s never surprising what you can find for sale online. A Google search
produced a multitude of different service/emotional dog kits for sale from
several different small companies. These kits will provide tags for your dog
claiming they are a service or emotional dog, identification for you and
your dog as a service dog, and a service dog vest.
>>
>> What is shocking is that even major online retailers offer links to
companies selling these dog kits. Even more shocking is that anyone can just
as easily purchase a harness for their dog of the type that a blind person
would use with their guide dog.
>>
>> It’s hard to comprehend that people would fake a disability to take their
dog on vacation with them. “I receive plenty of calls from people who do not
have disabilities, but are going out of town and need to take their dogs
with them. They are looking to find out where they can get certification,”
says Jose Lopez, director of communications for The Lighthouse of Broward
County, Florida.
>>
>> Becky Barnes, past president of Guide Dogs Users, Inc., has also fielded
calls over the years from people looking to get their dogs certified as
service dogs. To this, Becky explains, “The best way to get certification is
to go through a proper training program. The law does allow for individuals
to train their own dogs to be service dogs, but I wouldn’t recommend it, as
the individual needs to be matched with the appropriate dog.”
>>
>> Purchasing a service dog certification or an official looking ID through
one of these companies doesn’t make your dog a service dog, and these
companies are causing havoc for legitimate service dog handlers.
>>
>> Lopez said, “People with legitimate service dogs are being questioned
more than ever, and their fear is that they will have to carry around
identification stating their disability.” Barnes added, “Currently, the ADA
states that business owners are only allowed to ask if the dog is a service
dog, and what they are trained to help with.” The current law doesn’t
require service dog handlers to carry around any special identification.
>>
>> Barnes also added, “I think the fear of service dog handlers is that they
will be questioned even more. Right now our rights are very clearly stated
by the ADA.
>>
>>
>> Bev Klayman, manager of admission services for Guiding Eyes for the Blind
has her suspicions about illegitimate service dogs. “I’ve seen dogs with
service dog tags misbehaving and acting aggressively in public. The general
public cannot differentiate between dogs that have been legitimately trained
to be service dogs (and those that have not). These illegitimate service
dogs are causing scenes and causing a bad representation of service dogs.”
>>
>> One area where service dog handlers are running into a lot of trouble is
with the airlines. With heightened security at airports, service dog
handlers are receiving even more scrutiny. On a recent trip to the airport,
Becky was told by the clerk at the check-in counter, “That’s not a service
dog. Service dogs don’t wag their tails!”
>>
>> It definitely is never dull for service dog handlers. You never know what
you will hear next. Considering the times we live in, one would expect to
get hassled at the airport, as a little bit of a hassle goes a long way to
making us feel safe and secure. So you could imagine Jose Lopez’s surprise
on a recent flight when he was flipping through the Sky Mall magazine, and
what did he come across? An advertisement in the magazine selling a service
dog kit to take your dog with you wherever you go!
>>
>> Becky Barnes said, “Currently, these companies aren’t breaking any laws.
“With service dogs there doesn’t seem to be a white and black area but a
huge gray area.” She added, “Discussions have begun to make it a misdemeanor
to misrepresent your dog as a service dog. Unfortunately, it is being taken
as seriously as pirating music.”
>>
>> [Note: while it is not illegal for companies to sell items to 
>> identify service dogs, in many states it is illegal for someone to 
>> pretend to have a protected disability in order to gain access for 
>> their pet dog in places where it would otherwise be banned. — Ed.]
>>
>>
>> Related Stories
>>
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>>
>> Post Office Honors Service Dogs with Stamp Series
>>
>> Publish Date: September 19 2012
>> Tags: Leadership, Dog Training, Americans with Disabilities Act, 
>> dogs, fake service dog, service dogs, Training
>>
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