[nagdu] {Disarmed} Fake Service Dogs, Real Problem | Cesar Millan
blind411
blind411 at verizon.net
Mon May 27 17:35:39 UTC 2013
Tami,
And this is for anyone else facing legislative issue, too! Should
there ever be a need for NAGDU's assistance on legislative issues, please do
not hesitate to ask for us to write to the appropriate offices. We are here
to support the national effort and each of you are a part of this effort!
Fraternally yours,
Marion Gwizdala
-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Tami Jarvis
Sent: Monday, May 27, 2013 1:03 PM
To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
Subject: Re: [nagdu] {Disarmed} Fake Service Dogs, Real Problem | Cesar
Millan
Thanks, Marion! I knew I could count on NAGDU. I had not thought of the
Attorney General's office, but will include them in my letter writing!
I was freaking out, honestly, until I remembered a thing or two. Isn't it
true that even if Oregon passes a law requiring service dog users to present
proof of disability or other ID or certification, the state can't enforce
that because of the ADA?
Scary thought. A number of guide dog users in Oregon seem to be all for
their being required to show proof of disability to take their dogs into
stores or on the bus/train... Bummer about that ADA that makes it so we
can't do that, they say. I'm trying to present an alternative perspective on
a point at a time without hitting anyone over the head, which is tempting.
But it's hard because I don't understand that thinking at all! The real
problems the metro crowd is having with other dogs that affect their dogs
come more from the growing homeless population and stuff, but I think it's
easier to focus on those dratted fakes and frauds. Which includes anyone but
them, since they don't understaqnd how the guy with the hearing alert dog
could know when to get off the train if he couldn't hear the announcements.
I have considered pointing out that somebody else on the train assumed they
were a fraud the minute they got off at the correct stop, since they could
not do that if they can't see the sign. I've decided not to say it, but I
want to! /lol/
I'll work on the approach to the Attorney General and need to put my
thoughts in at least a draft to the legislators we're all supposed to write
to.
Thanks again!
Tami
On 05/26/2013 07:16 PM, blind411 wrote:
> Tami,
> As for your legislature's interest in creating a statute that would
> require identification, you may want to get in touch with your
> Attorney General's office which will advise the legislature on this
> issue to let them know that such a law would not be enforceable. If
> such a bill is introduced, do not hesitate to let NAGDU advocate on your
behalf!
>
> Fraternally yours,
> Marion
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Tami Jarvis
> Sent: Friday, May 24, 2013 1:34 PM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] {Disarmed} Fake Service Dogs, Real Problem |
> Cesar Millan
>
> Buddy,
>
> Hey, thanks! It is always great for an owner-trainer to get to hear a
> more traditional guide dog user state all of those points so well.
> Including the "Grrrr...." which has become about my first and only
> thought on the subject of ID and certification. I understand why
> people think about it and wonder if it might help... Apparently, in my
> state, I need to write letters to legislators to counter a push for
> that on the subject. Yikes! I am told I just need to accept that I
> should spend travel time and money for professional blessing to have a
> legal certification like all of those who have one from their guide dog
program. Um...
>
> Dealing with the frauds themselves more decisively than we do would be
> a great first start, I think. Also with the behavioral problems,
> because that seems to me to be the *real* problem. If little Fluffy is
> in the grocery store behaving like an angel, then I do not care if
> Fluffy is also task trained because Joe Blow her handler has a hidden
disability.
> I suppose if I discovered Joe Blow was able-bodied and Fluffy was just
> a real nice pet, I would be morally offended on some level. But I have
> enough problems to solve without making Fluffy one of them. The
> grocery store's rights are being more violated there than mine, but
> should we have someone at the door demanding proof of disability?
> Should that include the nature of the disability or information about
> the doctor that would give away something that would create trouble
> from whomever looked at the card? Say Fluffy is a seizure alert dog
> and Joe Blow just had to reveal that to someone who still believes
> that means he is demon possessed? I realize we guide dog users get all
> sorts of weirdness because of attitudes towards blindness, and it's
> hard to hide so we have to deal. I'm just not sure that requiring
> those with "hidden disabilities" to bring more of that sort of things on
themselves is something I want to push for.
>
> So I'm for ongoing education, formal and informal. I'm for penalties
> for bad behavior, real enforcement for fraud... I would rather bring
> it down to cases so that frauds start to realize they can't just get
> away with it. That won't stop all of them, but it would start to cut
> things down
> -- or so I think. /smile/
>
> Tami
> On 05/24/2013 08:35 AM, Buddy Brannan wrote:
>> Grrrrrr
.
>>
>> Here's a guide dog school representative saying that there *is* a
> "certified service dog", and the best way to get one os to go to a school.
> Wrong on both counts; schools are great, but there are plenty of well
> trained non-school service dogs. Plnty of awful ones too, but there
> are plenty of awful school ones, so
Oh, and let's not even talk about
> the whole "leave it to the experts, they know best" attitude.
>>
>> Anyway, here's what I posted on another list about this subject. The
> references to a previous Email aren't very important.
>>
>> Hi Angie,
>>
>> This points up a problem I've observed for a while now. Well, a
>> couple of
> things, really. First, an observation. I observe that there are some
> service dog users (mostly from guide dog schools, though I suspect
> that this is not exclusively so) who believe that the problems
> outlined in your Email below would be solved by a nationally
> recognized service dog certification. I don't happen to be one such,
> for a variety of reasons that I won't enumerate here. Suffice to say I
> think that such a certification would create more problems than it would
solve.
>>
>> My second observation is that we, as a community, meaning service dog
> users, have done a pretty good job of educating business owners, and
> the general public, that we are allowed by law to be accompanied by
> individually trained service animals. However, there are two areas
> that we've not done as well in, and I commend you, Angie, for doing your
part to fill that void.
>>
>> 1) As we know, the law states that we are allowed to be accompanied
>> by a service animal individually trained, blah blah blah. The law
>> does not confer any rights to the animal, rather, these rights are
>> for the disabled person to be accompanied by the animal. Thus, when
>> someone says "This is service dog, it is allowed to go anywhere in
>> public", this statement is incorrect. It is the handler, not the dog,
>> who has the right of accompaniment. My non-disabled sister would not
>> have the right to bring Leno to her hair appointment because Leno was
>> not specifically trained for her use, and, moreover, she doesn't have
>> a disability. Put another way, Leno doesn't have the right to be
>> anywhere that the general public is invited
without me. People often
>> gloss over this distinction, but it's an important one, and
>> especially important when we're talking about these people who would
>> pass off their dogs as service dogs when they themselves don't have,
>> and don't claim to have, any disabilities. So, we
> got half the message across, but, whether through our not
> communicating it clearly or willful ignorance, an important
> distinction is often missed
sometimes by us, and certainly by the
> general public. So, please, when educating others of your rights, be
> mindful of the distinction: your dog doesn't have any rights, you do.
>>
>> 2) In this respect, I think we've all fallen down on the job.
>> Business owners do not understand that our rights to be accompanied
>> by a service dog ***are not absolute***. We've done a great job, now
>> people understand that service dogs are OK. Loud and clear. However,
>> those rights are not absolute, as Angie illustrates perfectly below.
>> As she also illustrates perfectly, this fact is not well, if at all,
>> understood. Service dog or not, if our dog is disruptive or
>> substantially alters the delivery of goods or services, that dog may
>> be removed from the establishment. Of course, the business owner had
>> better be able to document the nature of the disruption, destruction,
>> or what have you, and it doesn't matter if your growling, lunging dog
>> is service dog or not t that point. This doesn't give business owners
>> the right to have your dog removed if it's ugly and messes with the
>> decor or something like that. Point is, rights are important, both
>> for us and for businesses. But as important are
> responsibilities, both for us and for businesses. I'm not sure how we
> can better educate on this, but I think we'll have to figure out how.
>> --
>> Buddy Brannan, KB5ELV - Erie, PA
>> Phone: (814) 860-3194 or 888-75-BUDDY
>>
>>
>>
>> On May 24, 2013, at 11:04 AM, James Alan Boehm
>> <jimmydagerman80 at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>>
>>> Hello friends.
>>> I came accross this article and wanted your thoughts. I know may
>>> have
> pushed legislation that denies a companiy to ask for cerification of a
> service dog. One issue that has encouraged businesses and such to ask
> for verification is due to the fact that many abuse and claim their
> dog is a service dog- a dog who has no training. The dog will behave
> inappropriately,making it more difficult for those who have legitimate
> guide dogs. Further, the handler who takes his pet friend and claims
> the animal is a service animal, has no training themselves as to how
> to a service animal as well as the laws and do's and don'ts of public
> mobility. This makes it again much more difficult for us I feel. Whay
> are your thoughts? Is there any programs or action being taken to try
> to make it more difficult for people to abuse the system?
>>> Best,
>>> James
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>>> DOG TRAINING
>>> Fake Service Dogs, Real Problem
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> By Brian Fischler
>>>
>>> The Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA) website defines service
>>> animals
> as dogs that are individually trained to do work or perform tasks for
> people with disabilities. That’s a very clear, concise definition.
>>>
>>> So why does an online ad elsewhere read, “Identification for your
>>> service
> dog will reduce conflict. Get yours before the law changes!”
>>>
>>> It’s never surprising what you can find for sale online. A Google
>>> search
> produced a multitude of different service/emotional dog kits for sale
> from several different small companies. These kits will provide tags
> for your dog claiming they are a service or emotional dog,
> identification for you and your dog as a service dog, and a service dog
vest.
>>>
>>> What is shocking is that even major online retailers offer links to
> companies selling these dog kits. Even more shocking is that anyone
> can just as easily purchase a harness for their dog of the type that a
> blind person would use with their guide dog.
>>>
>>> It’s hard to comprehend that people would fake a disability to take
>>> their
> dog on vacation with them. “I receive plenty of calls from people who
> do not have disabilities, but are going out of town and need to take
> their dogs with them. They are looking to find out where they can get
certification,”
> says Jose Lopez, director of communications for The Lighthouse of
> Broward County, Florida.
>>>
>>> Becky Barnes, past president of Guide Dogs Users, Inc., has also
>>> fielded
> calls over the years from people looking to get their dogs certified
> as service dogs. To this, Becky explains, “The best way to get
> certification is to go through a proper training program. The law does
> allow for individuals to train their own dogs to be service dogs, but
> I wouldn’t recommend it, as the individual needs to be matched with the
appropriate dog.”
>>>
>>> Purchasing a service dog certification or an official looking ID
>>> through
> one of these companies doesn’t make your dog a service dog, and these
> companies are causing havoc for legitimate service dog handlers.
>>>
>>> Lopez said, “People with legitimate service dogs are being
>>> questioned
> more than ever, and their fear is that they will have to carry around
> identification stating their disability.” Barnes added, “Currently,
> the ADA states that business owners are only allowed to ask if the dog
> is a service dog, and what they are trained to help with.” The current
> law doesn’t require service dog handlers to carry around any special
identification.
>>>
>>> Barnes also added, “I think the fear of service dog handlers is that
>>> they
> will be questioned even more. Right now our rights are very clearly
> stated by the ADA.
>>>
>>>
>>> Bev Klayman, manager of admission services for Guiding Eyes for the
>>> Blind
> has her suspicions about illegitimate service dogs. “I’ve seen dogs
> with service dog tags misbehaving and acting aggressively in public.
> The general public cannot differentiate between dogs that have been
> legitimately trained to be service dogs (and those that have not).
> These illegitimate service dogs are causing scenes and causing a bad
representation of service dogs.”
>>>
>>> One area where service dog handlers are running into a lot of
>>> trouble is
> with the airlines. With heightened security at airports, service dog
> handlers are receiving even more scrutiny. On a recent trip to the
> airport, Becky was told by the clerk at the check-in counter, “That’s
> not a service dog. Service dogs don’t wag their tails!”
>>>
>>> It definitely is never dull for service dog handlers. You never know
>>> what
> you will hear next. Considering the times we live in, one would expect
> to get hassled at the airport, as a little bit of a hassle goes a long
> way to making us feel safe and secure. So you could imagine Jose
> Lopez’s surprise on a recent flight when he was flipping through the
> Sky Mall magazine, and what did he come across? An advertisement in
> the magazine selling a service dog kit to take your dog with you wherever
you go!
>>>
>>> Becky Barnes said, “Currently, these companies aren’t breaking any laws.
> “With service dogs there doesn’t seem to be a white and black area but
> a huge gray area.” She added, “Discussions have begun to make it a
> misdemeanor to misrepresent your dog as a service dog. Unfortunately,
> it is being taken as seriously as pirating music.”
>>>
>>> [Note: while it is not illegal for companies to sell items to
>>> identify service dogs, in many states it is illegal for someone to
>>> pretend to have a protected disability in order to gain access for
>>> their pet dog in places where it would otherwise be banned. — Ed.]
>>>
>>>
>>> Related Stories
>>>
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>>>
>>> Post Office Honors Service Dogs with Stamp Series
>>>
>>> Publish Date: September 19 2012
>>> Tags: Leadership, Dog Training, Americans with Disabilities Act,
>>> dogs, fake service dog, service dogs, Training
>>>
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>>> me
>>
>>
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