[nagdu] Ownership and Other Agreements was Guide Dog Schools

Larry D. Keeler lkeeler at comcast.net
Fri Nov 1 21:43:28 UTC 2013


Good question. I'm not sure! I do know that they haven't bugged me at all 
after I took Holly home. They called once when she got loose in the first 2 
months but other than that, they haven't made a peep!
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "National Association of Guide Dog Users" <blind411 at verizon.net>
To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'" 
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, November 01, 2013 12:23 PM
Subject: [nagdu] Ownership and Other Agreements was Guide Dog Schools


> Chantel,
> It is my understanding that Pilot does not transfer ownership upon
> completion of training. Do you have a copy of the Pilot agreement 
> concerning
> this? As was stated on this list a little earlier, there are those who 
> would
> share misinformation about the training programs and, in an effort to
> provide accurate information from an objective point of view, I would like
> to see the agreements from the training programs. NAGDU has requested this
> information from each of the programs and the only ones that were
> cooperative were the Guide Dog
> Foundation and Guide Dogs of America. I do have the Fidelco agreement, as
> posted to the list; however, this was given to me by a consumer, not by
> Fidelco. I know it is a true representation of the agreement, as other
> Fidelco consumers have shared their agreements with me and they are
> identical.
>
> It is my contention that, if the training programs feel confident
> with their agreements, they should be willing to share them with
> representative consumer organization in the interest of transparency and
> accountability. Failing this, it would be great if consumers would share
> their agreements with us.
>
> Fraternally yours,
>
> Marion Gwizdala, President
> National Association of Guide Dog Users Inc.
> National Federation of the Blind
> (813) 626-2789 (Office)
> 888-NAGDU411 (Hotline
> President at nagdu.org
> www.nagdu.org
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Chantel Cuddemi
> Sent: Thursday, October 31, 2013 10:08 PM
> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Guide Dog Schools
>
> Hanna,
>
> Pilot Dogs gives us graduates full ownership of our dogs upon graduation
> from the program.
>
> Hope that helped,
>
> Chantel and Motley of Pilot Dogs.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Hannah Chadwick
> Sent: Thursday, October 31, 2013 7:56 PM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Guide Dog Schools
>
> Yes, GDB can provide more financial help if needed.  I think that larger
> schools tend to have more follow-up services because they have more funds 
> as
> well as trainers.  I don't think Pilot gives complete ownership, but I 
> could
> be wrong since that wasn't one of my concerns when I applied.  Pilot also
> trains boxers and Dobermans in addition to what Raven mentioned.
> On one hand I think that it is important to have a breed preference, but 
> on
> the other, I think it is the training that matters the most.  There are 
> good
> things and bad things about every breed of dog.  The work you put in is 
> what
> you will get out.  The more effort you put into your dog will mean more
> success with your team.  When you get your dog, please remember that the
> bonding process takes between 6 months and a year.  As in my earlier 
> email,
> please feel free to email me off list if you want to know about Pilot or
> Guide Dogs for the Blind.
> Good luck, Hannah and Spritzie
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Raven Tolliver <ravend729 at gmail.com
> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org Date sent: Thu, 31 Oct 2013 19:39:50 -0400
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Guide Dog Schools
>
> Hi,
> I attended Guiding Eyes for the Blind primarily because I wanted an adult
> dog.  As a person who never owned or handled a dog before, I thought it
> important to have a dog that was physically and mentally mature, and had
> established mannerisms.  I wanted a golden retriever, and goldens and 
> German
> shepherds have a better work ethic as adults.
> This has been proven in studies of guide dog programs and service dog
> programs.
> I also chose GEB because of the financial assistance.  Students are 
> allotted
> $200 annually, and if your dog is 10 pounds within their target weight, 
> the
> student is given another $100.  There is also an emergency fund, but it 
> can
> only be used once during a particular dog's career.  The GDB grads can
> correct me if I'm wrong, but I think GDB gives more financial assistance
> than this.  Grads from that program can explain the logistics better.
> As far as what breed of dog is best at guide work, that depends on the
> person.  I have always adored the gentle nature and laid-back temperament 
> of
> a golden, and I would not want to live with the high energy and quirkiness
> of a typical labrador.  German shepherds are very serious about their 
> work,
> but they have high energy requirements.
> All
> three breeds are extremely loving, loyal and obedient if you bond with 
> them
> properly.  All three breeds have double coats, so they both shed a lot.  I
> do not know as much about the other breeds put out by Pilot dogs, but 
> people
> have success with them, so you would have to ask the handlers of poodles,
> dobermans, and Vieszlas.
> You have to decide for yourself what you like or don't like in a dog.
> And the personality is just as, if not more, important than breed.
> Also, know that if you are picky about breed that it may take longer to 
> find
> you the right dog and get a class date.  I was fortunate that my golden 
> was
> available so soon after I applied, but I knew that being choosy might mean 
> a
> longer wait.
> To determine which school might be right for you, you should rate the
> following factors by importance  to you.
> location of school, home-training program, special needs program, cost of
> the program, length of program, financial assistance, follow up services,
> ownership policy, training methods, choice to meet and keep in touch with
> your dog's puppy-raisers, graduation ceremony, breeds offered, life stage 
> of
> dogs issued These are just what I can think of for now, but there are more
> factors that others will bring to your attention.
> If ownership is important to you, the Seeing Eye, Pilot Dogs, or Guide 
> Dogs
> of America are options.  If you don't understand why ownership is 
> important
> to some people, then I will explain upon request, because it is a very
> serious issue that every service dog handler should have proper
> understanding of.
> If home-training is important to you this is offered by Fidelco, Guiding
> Eyes, and a couple other programs.  Guiding Eyes usually does 
> home-training
> with returning graduates, but they have been known to approve it for first
> time trainees.
> I would encourage you to complete your training with your first guide dog 
> at
> the school if it is at all possible and convenient for you.  The benefit 
> is
> that you will not likely feel alone in the struggles you will experience,
> and also, you can get great training and doggie care tips from experienced
> guide dog handlers.  In addition, you could develop long standing
> relationships with other classmates, which was a plus for me.
> Good luck, and email me off list if you want to know more about my Guiding
> Eyes experience.
>
>
> On 10/31/13, Shickeytha Chandler <shickeytha at gmail.com> wrote:
> Thank you all for your responses.  I have actually been leaning toward  a
> lab or a golden because I have heard in the past that those types of  dogs
> are very loyal and have an even temperament.  But at the same  time, I 
> want
> to have an open mind and consider what other types of  dogs might have to
> offer.  By the way, I love the names of all three of  your dogs.  Great 
> dog
> names!
>
> On 10/31/13, minh ha <minh.ha927 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi Shickeytha,
>
> I want to echo what Hannah said in her email.  I am working with my  first
> guide, Viva from Guide Dogs for the Blind on their Oregon  campus.  As a
> college student, financial and post-graduation support  were the two most
> critical aspects that I was looking for in a guide  dog school.  I felt 
> like
> GDB provided both of these and I really liked  their positive training
> methods as well as the respectful way they  treat their handlers. 
> Regarding
> the breed of dog, I think that  ultimately needs to be your decision. 
> Each
> individual has their  preference and people are going to tell you their
> choice is the best.
> GDB only works with labs and golden retrievers.  My girl is a lab and I
> couldn't have asked for a better dog; she's extremely energetic and
> playful, but she's an excellent worker once the harness goes on.
>
> Minh
>
> On 10/31/13, Chantel Cuddemi <jawsgirl87 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Welcome to the  list!
>
> I am working my first dog from Pilot Dogs, a standard poodle named 
> Motley!
>
> We've been a team for a year and eight months.
>
> Good luck with what school you choose!
>
> Chantel and Motley.
>
> On 10/31/13, Hannah Chadwick <sparklylicious at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hey,
> Welcome to the list.  I'm working my second guide, Spritz.  She  is from
> Guide Dogs for the Blind.  She is a black lab; I got her  over the summer.
> Since I'm a college student and having had a previous dog that  was very
> high-maintenance, I knew I would need financial  assistance and after
> support.  Those were two of the major things  I looked for when I applied 
> to
> schools.  The training methods  (positive vs negative) used in schools 
> also
> mattered to me.  Of  course which may vary on an individual and team 
> basis,
> but I've  come to realize that food rewards go a long way.  My first dog
> was from Pilot because I wanted a poodle, but she retired after  almost a
> year.  My training experience at Pilot was good, but I  wasn't as
> experienced so I didn't have the necessary tools to  manage such a
> high-strung dog.  Please email me off-list if you  have further questions.
> Good luck with the application process  and all that.
> Best, Hannah and Spritz
>  ----- Original Message -----
> From: Shickeytha Chandler <shickeytha at gmail.com
> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog  Users"
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org  Date sent: Thu, 31 Oct 2013 14:08:20 -0400
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Guide Dog Schools
>
> No problem.  I understand that different people have different 
> experiences
> and perspectives, and I think it is important to  consider  both positive
> and negative.  Thanks.
>
> On 10/31/13, Mike <blinkin4342 at gmail.com> wrote:
>  As a Fidelco client I completely disagree with the statement  that 
> Fidelco
>  has contract issues.  The issues are definitely personal and not
> Fidelco's
>  fault.
>  I have had nothing but good experiences with Fidelco over the  last three
>  years and I know a lot of people who feel the same way.  There  are a
> certain
>  handful of folks on this list who have personal issues with  Fidelco and
> tend
>  to be much louder than the people who have good experiences.
>  You should definitely read the contract to make sure you are  aware of 
> the
>  rules.  That is the case with any guy dog school.  Just keep an  open
> mind.
>  Every school has good and bad things.  Every school has someone  who 
> loves
>  them and hates them.  I'd recommend that you decide what breed  you want,
> see
>  what school meets your needs the best, and go forward from  there.
>
>
>  Mike
>
>  On Oct 31, 2013, at 12:18 PM, "Larry D.  Keeler"
> <lkeeler at comcast.net
>  wrote:
>
>  First, watch out for Fidelco! They have contract issues.
> Before
> you
>  decide, make sure you read and understand the contract.  The
> other thing,
>  schools when possible do give you a choice.  Now always can
> they
> accomidate
>  but usually they can.  I went to Pilot because I wanted a
> poodle.  They
>  breed them down there.  However, I ended up qith a labradoodle
> wich is
>  almost as good! As for training at school or at home, I think
> it
> would be
>  more useful to train at hom.  But, if you know your
> neighborhood, it
>  doesn't matter as much.
>  ----- Original Message ----- From: "Shickeytha Chandler"
>  <shickeytha at gmail.com
>  To: <nagdu at nfbnet.org
>  Sent: Thursday, October 31, 2013 11:44 AM
>  Subject: [nagdu] Guide Dog Schools
>
>
>  Hello all,
>
>  I am new to the list.  I currently travel with a cane, but am
> very
>  seriously considering getting a guide dog in the near future.
> I
> am
>  doing research on guide dog schools to see which might be best
> for me.
>  I am considering Fidelco, Guiding Eyes and the Seeing Eye.
> Does
> anyone
>  on this list have either particularly positive or especially
> negative
>  experiences with any of these schools? If so, I would be
> interested to
>  hear your feedback.  Also, I noticed that Fidelco does training
> at your
>  residence, whereas the other schools bring you to their
> campuses
> for
>  training.  I would like to hear perspectives about the
> disadvantages
>  and advantages of each of these methods of training.
>
>  Finally, I know that various types of dogs are trained as
> guides,
>  ranging from labs to German Shepherds.  I would like to know if
> schools
>  give you a choice as to what type of dog you are paired with.
> Also, I
>  would be interested to hear from anyone who has worked with
> dogs
> of
>  various kinds; I'd like to know your thoughts as to whether
> there are
>  distinct qualities that one breed possesses that another breed
> does
>  not generally possess.  Of course, I am sure all dogs are
> unique, even
>  within a breed type.
>
>  I know that is a lot of questions for one email.  Thanks in
> advance for
>  any insight that you can provide.
>
>  Shickeytha
>
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>
> --
> "All men dream, but not equally.  Those who dream by night in
> the dusty
> recesses of their minds, wake in the day to find that it was
> vanity:
> but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act
> on
> their dreams with open eyes, to make them possible." T.  E.
> Lawrence
>
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> --
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>
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