[nagdu] Ownership and Other Agreements was Guide Dog Schools
Larry D. Keeler
lkeeler at comcast.net
Sat Nov 2 04:37:24 UTC 2013
The number is on her tag. She got loose and went over to the condos next
door. They called Pilot and they called me! She had only been gone about 10
minutes.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Nicole Torcolini" <ntorcolini at wavecable.com>
To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'"
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, November 01, 2013 11:23 PM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Ownership and Other Agreements was Guide Dog Schools
> Uh, and how did they find out about it and why is it any of their bee's
> wax?
> Were they trying to help or just asking questions? Did you contact them,
> or
> did they contact you?
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Larry D. Keeler
> Sent: Friday, November 01, 2013 2:43 PM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Ownership and Other Agreements was Guide Dog Schools
>
> Good question. I'm not sure! I do know that they haven't bugged me at all
> after I took Holly home. They called once when she got loose in the first
> 2
> months but other than that, they haven't made a peep!
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "National Association of Guide Dog Users" <blind411 at verizon.net>
> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'"
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Friday, November 01, 2013 12:23 PM
> Subject: [nagdu] Ownership and Other Agreements was Guide Dog Schools
>
>
>> Chantel,
>> It is my understanding that Pilot does not transfer ownership upon
>> completion of training. Do you have a copy of the Pilot agreement
>> concerning this? As was stated on this list a little earlier, there
>> are those who would share misinformation about the training programs
>> and, in an effort to provide accurate information from an objective
>> point of view, I would like to see the agreements from the training
>> programs. NAGDU has requested this information from each of the
>> programs and the only ones that were cooperative were the Guide Dog
>> Foundation and Guide Dogs of America. I do have the Fidelco agreement,
>> as posted to the list; however, this was given to me by a consumer,
>> not by Fidelco. I know it is a true representation of the agreement,
>> as other Fidelco consumers have shared their agreements with me and
>> they are identical.
>>
>> It is my contention that, if the training programs feel confident with
>> their agreements, they should be willing to share them with
>> representative consumer organization in the interest of transparency
>> and accountability. Failing this, it would be great if consumers would
>> share their agreements with us.
>>
>> Fraternally yours,
>>
>> Marion Gwizdala, President
>> National Association of Guide Dog Users Inc.
>> National Federation of the Blind
>> (813) 626-2789 (Office)
>> 888-NAGDU411 (Hotline
>> President at nagdu.org
>> www.nagdu.org
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Chantel
>> Cuddemi
>> Sent: Thursday, October 31, 2013 10:08 PM
>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Guide Dog Schools
>>
>> Hanna,
>>
>> Pilot Dogs gives us graduates full ownership of our dogs upon
>> graduation from the program.
>>
>> Hope that helped,
>>
>> Chantel and Motley of Pilot Dogs.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Hannah
>> Chadwick
>> Sent: Thursday, October 31, 2013 7:56 PM
>> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Guide Dog Schools
>>
>> Yes, GDB can provide more financial help if needed. I think that
>> larger schools tend to have more follow-up services because they have
>> more funds as well as trainers. I don't think Pilot gives complete
>> ownership, but I could be wrong since that wasn't one of my concerns
>> when I applied. Pilot also trains boxers and Dobermans in addition to
>> what Raven mentioned.
>> On one hand I think that it is important to have a breed preference,
>> but on the other, I think it is the training that matters the most.
>> There are good things and bad things about every breed of dog. The
>> work you put in is what you will get out. The more effort you put
>> into your dog will mean more success with your team. When you get
>> your dog, please remember that the bonding process takes between 6
>> months and a year. As in my earlier email, please feel free to email
>> me off list if you want to know about Pilot or Guide Dogs for the
>> Blind.
>> Good luck, Hannah and Spritzie
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Raven Tolliver <ravend729 at gmail.com
>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org Date sent: Thu, 31 Oct 2013 19:39:50 -0400
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Guide Dog Schools
>>
>> Hi,
>> I attended Guiding Eyes for the Blind primarily because I wanted an
>> adult dog. As a person who never owned or handled a dog before, I
>> thought it important to have a dog that was physically and mentally
>> mature, and had established mannerisms. I wanted a golden retriever,
>> and goldens and German shepherds have a better work ethic as adults.
>> This has been proven in studies of guide dog programs and service dog
>> programs.
>> I also chose GEB because of the financial assistance. Students are
>> allotted $200 annually, and if your dog is 10 pounds within their
>> target weight, the student is given another $100. There is also an
>> emergency fund, but it can only be used once during a particular dog's
>> career. The GDB grads can correct me if I'm wrong, but I think GDB
>> gives more financial assistance than this. Grads from that program
>> can explain the logistics better.
>> As far as what breed of dog is best at guide work, that depends on the
>> person. I have always adored the gentle nature and laid-back
>> temperament of a golden, and I would not want to live with the high
>> energy and quirkiness of a typical labrador. German shepherds are
>> very serious about their work, but they have high energy requirements.
>> All
>> three breeds are extremely loving, loyal and obedient if you bond with
>> them properly. All three breeds have double coats, so they both shed
>> a lot. I do not know as much about the other breeds put out by Pilot
>> dogs, but people have success with them, so you would have to ask the
>> handlers of poodles, dobermans, and Vieszlas.
>> You have to decide for yourself what you like or don't like in a dog.
>> And the personality is just as, if not more, important than breed.
>> Also, know that if you are picky about breed that it may take longer
>> to find you the right dog and get a class date. I was fortunate that
>> my golden was available so soon after I applied, but I knew that being
>> choosy might mean a longer wait.
>> To determine which school might be right for you, you should rate the
>> following factors by importance to you.
>> location of school, home-training program, special needs program, cost
>> of the program, length of program, financial assistance, follow up
>> services, ownership policy, training methods, choice to meet and keep
>> in touch with your dog's puppy-raisers, graduation ceremony, breeds
>> offered, life stage of dogs issued These are just what I can think of
>> for now, but there are more factors that others will bring to your
>> attention.
>> If ownership is important to you, the Seeing Eye, Pilot Dogs, or Guide
>> Dogs of America are options. If you don't understand why ownership is
>> important to some people, then I will explain upon request, because it
>> is a very serious issue that every service dog handler should have
>> proper understanding of.
>> If home-training is important to you this is offered by Fidelco,
>> Guiding Eyes, and a couple other programs. Guiding Eyes usually does
>> home-training with returning graduates, but they have been known to
>> approve it for first time trainees.
>> I would encourage you to complete your training with your first guide
>> dog at the school if it is at all possible and convenient for you.
>> The benefit is that you will not likely feel alone in the struggles
>> you will experience, and also, you can get great training and doggie
>> care tips from experienced guide dog handlers. In addition, you could
>> develop long standing relationships with other classmates, which was a
>> plus for me.
>> Good luck, and email me off list if you want to know more about my
>> Guiding Eyes experience.
>>
>>
>> On 10/31/13, Shickeytha Chandler <shickeytha at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Thank you all for your responses. I have actually been leaning toward a
>> lab or a golden because I have heard in the past that those types of
>> dogs
>> are very loyal and have an even temperament. But at the same time, I
>> want
>> to have an open mind and consider what other types of dogs might have to
>> offer. By the way, I love the names of all three of your dogs. Great
>> dog
>> names!
>>
>> On 10/31/13, minh ha <minh.ha927 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hi Shickeytha,
>>
>> I want to echo what Hannah said in her email. I am working with my
>> first
>> guide, Viva from Guide Dogs for the Blind on their Oregon campus. As a
>> college student, financial and post-graduation support were the two most
>> critical aspects that I was looking for in a guide dog school. I felt
>> like
>> GDB provided both of these and I really liked their positive training
>> methods as well as the respectful way they treat their handlers.
>> Regarding
>> the breed of dog, I think that ultimately needs to be your decision.
>> Each
>> individual has their preference and people are going to tell you their
>> choice is the best.
>> GDB only works with labs and golden retrievers. My girl is a lab and I
>> couldn't have asked for a better dog; she's extremely energetic and
>> playful, but she's an excellent worker once the harness goes on.
>>
>> Minh
>>
>> On 10/31/13, Chantel Cuddemi <jawsgirl87 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Welcome to the list!
>>
>> I am working my first dog from Pilot Dogs, a standard poodle named
>> Motley!
>>
>> We've been a team for a year and eight months.
>>
>> Good luck with what school you choose!
>>
>> Chantel and Motley.
>>
>> On 10/31/13, Hannah Chadwick <sparklylicious at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hey,
>> Welcome to the list. I'm working my second guide, Spritz. She is from
>> Guide Dogs for the Blind. She is a black lab; I got her over the
>> summer.
>> Since I'm a college student and having had a previous dog that was very
>> high-maintenance, I knew I would need financial assistance and after
>> support. Those were two of the major things I looked for when I applied
>> to
>> schools. The training methods (positive vs negative) used in schools
>> also
>> mattered to me. Of course which may vary on an individual and team
>> basis,
>> but I've come to realize that food rewards go a long way. My first dog
>> was from Pilot because I wanted a poodle, but she retired after almost a
>> year. My training experience at Pilot was good, but I wasn't as
>> experienced so I didn't have the necessary tools to manage such a
>> high-strung dog. Please email me off-list if you have further
>> questions.
>> Good luck with the application process and all that.
>> Best, Hannah and Spritz
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Shickeytha Chandler <shickeytha at gmail.com
>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org Date sent: Thu, 31 Oct 2013 14:08:20 -0400
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Guide Dog Schools
>>
>> No problem. I understand that different people have different
>> experiences
>> and perspectives, and I think it is important to consider both positive
>> and negative. Thanks.
>>
>> On 10/31/13, Mike <blinkin4342 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> As a Fidelco client I completely disagree with the statement that
>> Fidelco
>> has contract issues. The issues are definitely personal and not
>> Fidelco's
>> fault.
>> I have had nothing but good experiences with Fidelco over the last
>> three
>> years and I know a lot of people who feel the same way. There are a
>> certain
>> handful of folks on this list who have personal issues with Fidelco and
>> tend
>> to be much louder than the people who have good experiences.
>> You should definitely read the contract to make sure you are aware of
>> the
>> rules. That is the case with any guy dog school. Just keep an open
>> mind.
>> Every school has good and bad things. Every school has someone who
>> loves
>> them and hates them. I'd recommend that you decide what breed you
>> want,
>> see
>> what school meets your needs the best, and go forward from there.
>>
>>
>> Mike
>>
>> On Oct 31, 2013, at 12:18 PM, "Larry D. Keeler"
>> <lkeeler at comcast.net
>> wrote:
>>
>> First, watch out for Fidelco! They have contract issues.
>> Before
>> you
>> decide, make sure you read and understand the contract. The
>> other thing,
>> schools when possible do give you a choice. Now always can
>> they
>> accomidate
>> but usually they can. I went to Pilot because I wanted a
>> poodle. They
>> breed them down there. However, I ended up qith a labradoodle
>> wich is
>> almost as good! As for training at school or at home, I think
>> it
>> would be
>> more useful to train at hom. But, if you know your
>> neighborhood, it
>> doesn't matter as much.
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Shickeytha Chandler"
>> <shickeytha at gmail.com
>> To: <nagdu at nfbnet.org
>> Sent: Thursday, October 31, 2013 11:44 AM
>> Subject: [nagdu] Guide Dog Schools
>>
>>
>> Hello all,
>>
>> I am new to the list. I currently travel with a cane, but am
>> very
>> seriously considering getting a guide dog in the near future.
>> I
>> am
>> doing research on guide dog schools to see which might be best
>> for me.
>> I am considering Fidelco, Guiding Eyes and the Seeing Eye.
>> Does
>> anyone
>> on this list have either particularly positive or especially
>> negative
>> experiences with any of these schools? If so, I would be
>> interested to
>> hear your feedback. Also, I noticed that Fidelco does training
>> at your
>> residence, whereas the other schools bring you to their
>> campuses
>> for
>> training. I would like to hear perspectives about the
>> disadvantages
>> and advantages of each of these methods of training.
>>
>> Finally, I know that various types of dogs are trained as
>> guides,
>> ranging from labs to German Shepherds. I would like to know if
>> schools
>> give you a choice as to what type of dog you are paired with.
>> Also, I
>> would be interested to hear from anyone who has worked with
>> dogs
>> of
>> various kinds; I'd like to know your thoughts as to whether
>> there are
>> distinct qualities that one breed possesses that another breed
>> does
>> not generally possess. Of course, I am sure all dogs are
>> unique, even
>> within a breed type.
>>
>> I know that is a lot of questions for one email. Thanks in
>> advance for
>> any insight that you can provide.
>>
>> Shickeytha
>>
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>>
>> --
>> "All men dream, but not equally. Those who dream by night in
>> the dusty
>> recesses of their minds, wake in the day to find that it was
>> vanity:
>> but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act
>> on
>> their dreams with open eyes, to make them possible." T. E.
>> Lawrence
>>
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>>
>> --
>> Raven
>>
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