[nagdu] [NAGDU] ownership RE: Guide Dog Schools
Larry D. Keeler
lkeeler at comcast.net
Sun Nov 3 03:52:58 UTC 2013
Yes, I was referring to her. I was also unhappy that Pilot didn't even send
one. Didn't want to open that can partly because I like them but it does
prove my point about it being other schools as well.
----- Original Message -----
From: "National Association of Guide Dog Users" <blind411 at verizon.net>
To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'"
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Saturday, November 02, 2013 11:09 PM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] [NAGDU] ownership RE: Guide Dog Schools
> Larry,
> If you are referring to Ms. Unwinn, she was sent as an official
> representative. Her comments were vague and, where they were not, told a
> lot
> about Fidelco's perspective, especially the comment about consumers not
> having a voice when services are not paid for. Check out the Harness Up
> blog
> for a full transcript of her remarks!
>
> Fraternally yours,
> Marion Gwizdala
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Larry D. Keeler
> Sent: Saturday, November 02, 2013 9:17 PM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] [NAGDU] ownership RE: Guide Dog Schools
>
> I've heard many scary stories involving consumers, dogs and schools! I've
> heard things about all schools! For example, folks who went to other
> schools
> practically ordered me not to go where I went. I did anyway. Some things
> could be changed but some things not so much! I for one am not going to
> appologize for being political and advocating change! We need it! As blind
> folks we require it! Mike, I could find many stories about your school if
> I
> wanted to. But, I have no desire to because I'm finding stories from
> everyone's school! Yours is being picked on because of its contract and I
> also don't like the fact that they sent a representative to our national
> convention who claimed they didn't have the authority to speak on the
> schools behalf. These things are not hearsay! I listened in on the meeting
> in question and she refused to address anything asked of her. If you can
> live with the contract and the stories then go for it! You will probably
> get
> or have a great dog and become a great team! I personally woudn't want to
> take that gamble just based on the factual stuff I've seen. Some would say
> I
> took a gamble at Pilot as well. I was ignorant when I went threw there. I
> have learned a lot sence then. I would go back though because I hav
> experienced them. But, I will sure be more careful!
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Nicole Torcolini" <ntorcolini at wavecable.com>
> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'"
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Saturday, November 02, 2013 6:23 PM
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] [NAGDU] ownership RE: Guide Dog Schools
>
>
>> And where did you hear that version of the story?
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Mike
>> Sent: Saturday, November 02, 2013 2:53 PM
>> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] [NAGDU] ownership RE: Guide Dog Schools
>>
>> And yet again here we are referring to the same single incident with
>> only one person's perspective and now people are on the warpath
>> against Fidelco.
>> I've heard the same story but not from her perspective. What I heard
>> was that she wanted to send the dog back. She called Fidelco and told
>> them to come and pick the dog up. She had already made the decision to
>> give the dog back and did not want to try to fix the issues. When
>> Fidelco came to her house they set aside a few days to work with her
>> and the dog. Despite these attempts to try to rectify the issues the
>> woman repeatedly told them to take
>> the dog back The trainer had no sooner boarded the plane than the woman
>> decided it was a bad idea and tried to stop the wheels that were
>> already in motion. Instead of working with Fidelco she turned to
>> NAGDU and here we are. The story immediately got spun out of
>> proportion and changed so that Fidelco seems like the bad guys. This
>> woman is not going to admit any wrongdoing of her own even though that
>> is how I heard the story.
>> So there you go, two different sides of the very same story. This is
>> the reason I feel like boundaries are being overstepped. There is not,
>> by a longshot, enough evidence to be throwing such a major tantrum.
>> The evidence is not clear by far.
>>
>> Personally I don't blame the companies for not wanting to work with
>> this organization. NAGDU has a history and a tendency to bully and
>> strong-arm organizations into doing what they want instead of trying
>> to work with them peacefully. Most of the things that I have seen come
>> from this organization all seem like threats. I am not a member of
>> this organization. I joined this mailing list after hearing about you
>> all and hearing some bad stories. I wanted to find out for myself if
>> the stories were true or if it was just people who have their
>> feelings hurt.
>> I think the majority of the people on this list are very sensible and
>> are fair in their opinions. Unfortunately, there are a few who tend to
>> be overwhelming with their very one sided opinions and try to sway the
>> group into believing how they do even though they can't back their
>> beliefs up with real facts and evidence. Instead, they take one
>> single-story and refer back to it over and over like it is pure fact.
>> If I were running a guy dog school I would not work with an
>> organization that would try to stab me in my back as soon as possible
>> once they disagree with something that I am doing.
>> Personally I feel like there are better ways to get things done than
>> to run a smear campaign. I feel like I am reading emails from a
>> political party during elections sometimes.
>> I get much more value out of the emails that come from the individuals
>> that belong to this group rather then the official emails from the
>> leadership.
>> I
>> hesitate to believe anything that has an official title at the
>> beginning or end of it because of this whole situation. It's sad, but
>> things always change weather sooner or later.
>>
>>
>>
>> Mike
>>
>>> On Nov 2, 2013, at 12:28 PM, "National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>> <blind411 at verizon.net> wrote:
>>>
>>> Steve,
>>> It is unfortunate you question my integrity. The information I
>>> have received is as reliable as I can ascertain. One of the issues we
>>> face in having others come forward results in the very agreement I
>>> have posted to the list. If Fedelco has the right to repossess a
>>> guide dog "for any other reason as determined by Fidelco in its sole
>>> and absolute discretion", how confident can a consumer feel that
>>> objecting to a particular practice would not result in retaliatory
>>> behavior to remove the dog? If viewed from an objective point of
>>> view, do you agree that such a broad clause instills fear rather than
> cooperation?
>>> I have urged Fidelco consumers to come forward and they are unwilling
>>> to
>> do so because of such fear.
>>>
>>> The woman in Texas that was the subject of my April 2011 Braille
>>> Monitor article asked for help because her dog was exhibiting fear as
>>> the result of an incident that occurred in her neighborhood. She
>>> asked Fidelco for help on a number of occasions, both in writing and
>>> by phone. The result was that a trainer came to her home on the
>>> pretense of helping her, advised the consumer she wanted to work the
>>> dog near the place where it exhibited fear and, rather than doing so,
>>> loaded the dog in the vehicle and drove away. There was no indication
>>> from Fidelco that the dog would be Repossessed.
>>>
>>> When I spoke with Eliot Russman, he refused to discuss the issue
>>> with me, citing confidentiality concerns in spite of a signed release
>>> from the consumer. When pressed for an explanation, he referred me to
>>> the agreement allowing for Fidelco's sole and absolute discretion to
>>> repossess the dog. We afforded Fidelco the opportunity to share their
>>> side of the story through this signed release and they refused to do
>>> so. We also afforded Fidelco the opportunity to write a counterpoint
>>> article for the Braille Monitor and they refused to do that,too. What
>>> does their lack of transparency and accountability communicate? If
>>> their action were warranted, why would they not explain their actions
>>> instead of hiding behind false concerns over confidentiality?
>>>
>>> I wish I could share more information about the numerous
>>> complaints I received about Fidelco as the result of the article;
>>> however, I must respect the confidentiality of those who have expressed
> their concerns.
>>> Their fear is warranted and the agreement I have posted is objective
>>> evidence of the reality of this fear. BTW, are you aware that Fidelco
>>> shut down the consumer user group discussion list shortly after my
>>> article appeared and was posted to this list, generating discussions
>>> of other such behaviors and concerns on the premise that it
>>> infringed upon their trade mark? The group had been active for
>>> several years with no concerns about trade mark infringement;
>>> however, when consumers began expressing their concerns and relating
>>> their negative
>> experiences, it was squashed. And Mr.
>>> Russman refers to himself as a Libertarian!
>>>
>>> Fraternally yours,
>>> Marion Gwizdala
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Mike
>>> Sent: Saturday, November 02, 2013 10:24 AM
>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] [NAGDU] ownership RE: Guide Dog Schools
>>>
>>> I have tried many times, unsuccessfully, to get people to understand
>>> that Fidelco does not do surprise visits. This is not their policy
>>> and never has been. Tell me how it would make sense to pay one of
>>> your employees to travel across the country to visit someone if you
>>> don't even
>> know they are home?
>>> Fidelco is a nonprofit! They could not afford to run a policy like this!
>>> I know plenty of Fidelco clients and none of them have ever been
>>> surprised by a visit. They have all known weeks in advance.
>>>
>>> This story of a surprise visit is always from the same person and
>>> it's always the same people bringing it up. Then they try to point to
>>> it as fact when there are more of us who know that it is completely
> false.
>>> So instead of Marian telling us all the story one more time, how
>>> about the person who claims this is true come out and say so? I would
>>> love to know the real story but I don't want to hear it from somebody
>>> I don't feel like i can trust. I want to hear it from the source.
>>>
>>>>> On Nov 2, 2013, at 8:45 AM, "Steve & Shannon Cook"
>>>>> <cookcafe at sc.rr.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> As far as Fidelco calling consumers when they are 5 minutes away is
>>>> incorrect. Everytime a person from Fidelco comes to see me they
>>>> have called a few weeks in advance to schedule an appointment.
>>>> There are others here in my state with Fidelco dogs and they have
>>>> done them the same way. You can believe it or not.
>>>>
>>>> Steve Cook
>>>> Today I married my best friend.
>>>> The one that I laugh with, live for, love.
>>>> October 11, 2003
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of National
>>>> Association of Guide Dog Users
>>>> Sent: Friday, November 01, 2013 10:20 PM
>>>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] [NAGDU] ownership RE: Guide Dog Schools
>>>>
>>>> Tai,
>>>> I would actually prefer to respond on-list, as I believe it is
>>>> important for consumers to be aware of such things. I have had a few
>>>> consumers from Leader tell me they were told that, if they did not
>>>> trim down their dogs they would be removed, even when the vet
>>>> asserted they were at a healthy weight. I also had a couple whose
>>>> harnesses were repossessed by Leader because an official from the
>>>> Florida Division of Blind Services complained that their dogs were
>>>> acting out aggressively. This official told Leader that the couple
>>>> had been expelled from the Orientation and Adjustment Center because
>>>> of their dogs' aggressive behavior, an assertion that was untrue.
>>>> Someone also filed a complaint with Leader that this couple were
>>>> neglecting their dogs, something that was investigated by the local
>>>> animal control. I spoke with the investigator from animal control
>>>> and he said there was no evidence of abuse or neglect and, in fact,
>>>> the dogs toenails were painted. In his words, "People who abuse or
>>>> neglect their dogs do not paint their nails!" In spite of the fact
>>>> that there was no objective evidence of abuse or neglect and that
>>>> the assertions of the DBS official were untrue, Leader repossessed
>>>> their harnesses. BTW, the DBS
>>> official was reprimanded by a demotion.
>>>>
>>>> I recently had a Southeastern consumer tell me that a trainer made
>>>> a surprise visit to him and, a day or two later called to tell him
>>>> that, if he did not slim down his dog, they would repossess it.
>>>> This, in spite of the ownership policy in place at SEGDI.
>>>>
>>>> Then, of course, there is the case I wrote about in the April 2011
>>>> issue of the Braille Monitor in which Fidelco repossessed a woman's
>>>> dog after she made several attempts to have a trainer help her with
>>>> some fear issues her dog was experiencing. I have had a number of
>>>> Fidelco consumers tell me about similar incidents, however, they
>>>> were unwilling to pursue them for fear of retribution. I have also
>>>> been told it is a common practice of Fidelco to call consumers and
>>>> tell them they are five minutes away and want to inspect their dogs.
>>>> If they object, they are reminded of the clauses in the agreement
>>>> that state, "I agree to allow Fidelco's representatives to inspect
>>>> the dog and to survey my care and treatment of the dog at any
>>>> reasonable
> time"
>>>> and that violation of the agreement is cause for repossession of the
>>>> dog. I assume Fidelco believes five minutes notice is "reasonable"!
>>>> In my opinion, the Fidelco agreement speaks for itself on this topic!
>>>> As a law student, what would you say about such an ownership
>>>> agreement? I would say that it is ownership in name only with none
>>>> of the rights and privileges normally ascribed to ownership! I would
>>>> also say that, if one were to challenge Fidelco's right to repossess
>>>> a dog after transferring ownership, the agreement would not stand
>>>> the test of a legal
>>> challenge.
>>>>
>>>> Fraternally yours,
>>>> Marion Gwizdala
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Tai Blas
>>>> Sent: Friday, November 01, 2013 1:00 PM
>>>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] [NAGDU] ownership RE: Guide Dog Schools
>>>>
>>>> Marion,
>>>>
>>>> Which schools have been known to arbitrarily interfere and repossess
>> dogs?
>>>> If you'd prefer to respond to me off list, please do so at
>>>> taiablas at gmail.com
>>>>
>>>> Thanks.
>>>>
>>>> Tai
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of National
>>>> Association of Guide Dog Users
>>>> Sent: Friday, November 01, 2013 11:42 AM
>>>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] [NAGDU] ownership RE: Guide Dog Schools
>>>>
>>>> Mike,
>>>>
>>>> The issue is not one of "handing out pets" or "protecting an
>>>> investment".
>>>> It is one of dignity, respect, and accountability. Ownership carries
>>>> with it certain privileges, among them the avoidance of arbitrary
>>>> interference by those who fail to recognize the ability of the
>>>> blind, believing their rights preempt those of the blind. No matter
>>>> how you dissect this issue, the unwillingness to transfer ownership
>>>> is founded in an archaic paternalistic attitude that cannot be
>>>> justified by any
>>> objective evidence.
>>>>
>>>> As Vice President Hingson stated and is our experience in light of
>>>> the numerous instances in which guide dogs have been removed without
>>>> cause, ownership is the only rational policy if one believes blind
>>>> people should be treated equitably with our sighted peers. Though
>>>> Fidelco asserts they transfer ownership after six months, their
>>>> agreement is far short of true ownership. Since when does a car
>>>> dealership have the right to repossess a dog at their sole and
>>>> absolute discretion. I know there are those who will argue that a
>>>> dog is diferent than a car; however, under the law, a dog is
>>>> property no different than a car, in spite of the fact that it is a
>>>> living breathing animal. In fact, following this argument to it
>>>> slogical end, how much more attached does one become to a living
>>>> being that offers unconcditional love an acceptance. After becoming
>>>> attached to such a being, should we not have the right to protect
>>>> ourselves from arbitrary, unjust interference from an organization
>>>> that will result in an
>>> emotional bond being broken without cause?
>>>>
>>>> Fraternally yours,
>>>>
>>>> Marion Gwizdala, President
>>>> National Association of Guide Dog Users Inc.
>>>> National Federation of the Blind
>>>> (813) 626-2789 (Office)
>>>> 888-NAGDU411 (Hotline
>>>> President at nagdu.org
>>>> www.nagdu.org
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Mike
>>>> Sent: Friday, November 01, 2013 7:20 AM
>>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] [NAGDU] ownership RE: Guide Dog Schools
>>>>
>>>> A lot of time and money gets infested into producing a guide dog.
>>>> Its silly to try and pressure companies into giving complete
>>>> ownership to the
>>> handler.
>>>> If it doesn't work out in six months or a year or even two then,
>>>> depending on reason, that dog could go back to the company and
>>>> eventually go help someone else.
>>>> Why turn such an investment into someone's pet when it could be so
>>>> much more for someone else.
>>>> I personally don't agree with the bill of rights. People should just
>>>> understand their school of choice. Its not our decision. Its theirs
>>>> as a business. If we as consumers don't like it then we have other
>>>> schools to pick from.
>>>> If i ran a school id probably do the same thing. Its protecting an
>>>> investment and smaller schools cant afford to hand out pets.
>>>> JMO
>>>>
>>>> Mike
>>>>
>>>>> On Oct 31, 2013, at 9:45 PM, "Michael Hingson"
>>>>> <info at michaelhingson.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Hannah,
>>>>>
>>>>> The problem is that what we define as full ownership is not what
>>>>> the schools usually mean. The Seeing Eye is an organization that
>>>>> provides ownership. I am not as familiar with Pilot, but Chantel
>>>>> indicates that Pilot also does give ownership.
>>>>>
>>>>> Other schools have different contracts that may or may not grant
>>>>> full ownership, and that may require that if a guide retires within
>>>>> some length of time the school may demand that the guide be
>>>>> returned for retraining or for some other purpose. NAGDU has
>>>>> passed resolutions calling on all schools to provide full ownership
>>>>> of guide dogs upon graduation, and that same position is stated in
>>>>> NAGDU's Guide Dog Consumer Bill of Rights. Most guide dog schools
>>>>> are living in the past and are as a result paternalistic to one
>>>>> degree
>> or another.
>>>>> They do not see the tide of aware consumers which is turning
>>>>> against them and which is demanding the same rights given to other
>>>>> citizens in other
>>>> training situations.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Best,
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Michael Hingson
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Hannah
>>>>> Chadwick
>>>>> Sent: Thursday, October 31, 2013 7:22 PM
>>>>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
>>>>> Subject: [nagdu] ownership RE: Guide Dog Schools
>>>>>
>>>>> Chantel,
>>>>> Thank you for the correction.
>>>>> Can someone please define complete ownership when it comes to guide
>>>>> dogs? I mean, if we get complete ownership, then doesn't that mean
>>>>> I'd get to keep the dog no matter the age when that dog stops
>>>>> working? I'm just curious since I was told that I had to send my
>>>>> dog back to the school because she didn't work out but she was only 3.
>>>>> Thank you, hannah
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Chantel
>>>>> Cuddemi
>>>>> Sent: Thursday, October 31, 2013 7:08 PM
>>>>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Guide Dog Schools
>>>>>
>>>>> Hanna,
>>>>>
>>>>> Pilot Dogs gives us graduates full ownership of our dogs upon
>>>>> graduation from the program.
>>>>>
>>>>> Hope that helped,
>>>>>
>>>>> Chantel and Motley of Pilot Dogs.
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Hannah
>>>>> Chadwick
>>>>> Sent: Thursday, October 31, 2013 7:56 PM
>>>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Guide Dog Schools
>>>>>
>>>>> Yes, GDB can provide more financial help if needed. I think that
>>>>> larger schools tend to have more follow-up services because they
>>>>> have more funds as well as trainers. I don't think Pilot gives
>>>>> complete ownership, but I could be wrong since that wasn't one of
>>>>> my concerns when I applied. Pilot also trains boxers and Dobermans
>>>>> in addition to
>>>> what Raven mentioned.
>>>>> On one hand I think that it is important to have a breed
>>>>> preference, but on the other, I think it is the training that matters
> the most.
>>>>> There are good things and bad things about every breed of dog. The
>>>>> work you put in is what you will get out. The more effort you put
>>>>> into your dog will mean more success with your team. When you get
>>>>> your dog, please remember that the bonding process takes between 6
>>>>> months and a year. As in my earlier email, please feel free to
>>>>> email me off list if you want to know about Pilot or Guide Dogs for
>>>>> the
>> Blind.
>>>>> Good luck, Hannah and Spritzie
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: Raven Tolliver <ravend729 at gmail.com
>>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org Date sent: Thu, 31 Oct 2013 19:39:50 -0400
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Guide Dog Schools
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi,
>>>>> I attended Guiding Eyes for the Blind primarily because I wanted an
>>>>> adult dog. As a person who never owned or handled a dog before, I
>>>>> thought it important to have a dog that was physically and mentally
>>>>> mature, and had established mannerisms. I wanted a golden
>>>>> retriever, and goldens and German shepherds have a better work
>>>>> ethic as
>> adults.
>>>>> This has been proven in studies of guide dog programs and service
>>>>> dog programs.
>>>>> I also chose GEB because of the financial assistance. Students are
>>>>> allotted $200 annually, and if your dog is 10 pounds within their
>>>>> target weight, the student is given another $100. There is also an
>>>>> emergency fund, but it can only be used once during a particular
>>>>> dog's
>>> career.
>>>>> The GDB grads can correct me if I'm wrong, but I think GDB gives
>>>>> more financial assistance than this. Grads from that program can
>>>>> explain the
>>>> logistics better.
>>>>> As far as what breed of dog is best at guide work, that depends on
>>>>> the person. I have always adored the gentle nature and laid-back
>>>>> temperament of a golden, and I would not want to live with the high
>>>>> energy and quirkiness of a typical labrador. German shepherds are
>>>>> very serious about their work, but they have high energy requirements.
>>>>> All
>>>>> three breeds are extremely loving, loyal and obedient if you bond
>>>>> with them properly. All three breeds have double coats, so they
>>>>> both shed a lot. I do not know as much about the other breeds put
>>>>> out by Pilot dogs, but people have success with them, so you would
>>>>> have to ask the handlers of poodles, dobermans, and Vieszlas.
>>>>> You have to decide for yourself what you like or don't like in a dog.
>>>>> And the personality is just as, if not more, important than breed.
>>>>> Also, know that if you are picky about breed that it may take
>>>>> longer to find you the right dog and get a class date. I was
>>>>> fortunate that my golden was available so soon after I applied, but
>>>>> I knew that being choosy might mean a longer wait.
>>>>> To determine which school might be right for you, you should rate
>>>>> the following factors by importance to you.
>>>>> location of school, home-training program, special needs program,
>>>>> cost of the program, length of program, financial assistance,
>>>>> follow up services, ownership policy, training methods, choice to
>>>>> meet and keep in touch with your dog's puppy-raisers, graduation
>>>>> ceremony, breeds offered, life stage of dogs issued These are just
>>>>> what I can think of for now, but there are more factors that others
>>>>> will bring to your
>>>> attention.
>>>>> If ownership is important to you, the Seeing Eye, Pilot Dogs, or
>>>>> Guide Dogs of America are options. If you don't understand why
>>>>> ownership is important to some people, then I will explain upon
>>>>> request, because it is a very serious issue that every service dog
>>>>> handler should have proper understanding of.
>>>>> If home-training is important to you this is offered by Fidelco,
>>>>> Guiding Eyes, and a couple other programs. Guiding Eyes usually
>>>>> does home-training with returning graduates, but they have been
>>>>> known to approve it for first time trainees.
>>>>> I would encourage you to complete your training with your first
>>>>> guide dog at the school if it is at all possible and convenient for
>>>>> you.
>>>>> The benefit is that you will not likely feel alone in the struggles
>>>>> you will experience, and also, you can get great training and
>>>>> doggie care tips from experienced guide dog handlers. In addition,
>>>>> you could develop long standing relationships with other
>>>>> classmates, which was a
>>>> plus for me.
>>>>> Good luck, and email me off list if you want to know more about my
>>>>> Guiding Eyes experience.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 10/31/13, Shickeytha Chandler <shickeytha at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> Thank you all for your responses. I have actually been leaning
>>>>> toward a lab or a golden because I have heard in the past that
>>>>> those types of dogs are very loyal and have an even temperament.
>>>>> But at the same time, I want to have an open mind and consider what
>>>>> other types of dogs might have to offer. By the way, I love the
>>>>> names of all three of your dogs. Great dog names!
>>>>>
>>>>> On 10/31/13, minh ha <minh.ha927 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> Hi Shickeytha,
>>>>>
>>>>> I want to echo what Hannah said in her email. I am working with my
>>>>> first guide, Viva from Guide Dogs for the Blind on their Oregon
>>>>> campus. As a college student, financial and post-graduation
>>>>> support were the two most critical aspects that I was looking for
>>>>> in a guide dog school. I felt like GDB provided both of these and
>>>>> I really liked their positive training methods as well as the
>>>>> respectful way they treat their handlers. Regarding the breed of
>>>>> dog, I think that ultimately needs to be your decision. Each
>>>>> individual has their preference and people are going to tell you their
> choice is the best.
>>>>> GDB only works with labs and golden retrievers. My girl is a lab
>>>>> and I couldn't have asked for a better dog; she's extremely
>>>>> energetic and playful, but she's an excellent worker once the
>>>>> harness
>> goes on.
>>>>>
>>>>> Minh
>>>>>
>>>>> On 10/31/13, Chantel Cuddemi <jawsgirl87 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> Welcome to the list!
>>>>>
>>>>> I am working my first dog from Pilot Dogs, a standard poodle named
>>>> Motley!
>>>>>
>>>>> We've been a team for a year and eight months.
>>>>>
>>>>> Good luck with what school you choose!
>>>>>
>>>>> Chantel and Motley.
>>>>>
>>>>> On 10/31/13, Hannah Chadwick <sparklylicious at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> Hey,
>>>>> Welcome to the list. I'm working my second guide, Spritz. She is
>>>>> from Guide Dogs for the Blind. She is a black lab; I got her over
>>>>> the
>>>> summer.
>>>>> Since I'm a college student and having had a previous dog that was
>>>>> very high-maintenance, I knew I would need financial assistance
>>>>> and after support. Those were two of the major things I looked
>>>>> for when I applied to schools. The training methods (positive vs
>>>>> negative) used in schools also mattered to me. Of course which
>>>>> may vary on an individual and team basis, but I've come to realize
>>>>> that food rewards go a long way. My first dog was from Pilot
>>>>> because I wanted a poodle, but
>>>> she retired after almost a year.
>>>>> My training experience at Pilot was good, but I wasn't as
>>>>> experienced so I didn't have the necessary tools to manage such a
>>>>> high-strung dog. Please email me off-list if you have further
>>> questions.
>>>>> Good luck with the application process and all that.
>>>>> Best, Hannah and Spritz
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: Shickeytha Chandler <shickeytha at gmail.com
>>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org Date sent: Thu, 31 Oct 2013 14:08:20 -0400
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Guide Dog Schools
>>>>>
>>>>> No problem. I understand that different people have different
>>>>> experiences and perspectives, and I think it is important to
>>>>> consider both positive and negative. Thanks.
>>>>>
>>>>> On 10/31/13, Mike <blinkin4342 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> As a Fidelco client I completely disagree with the statement that
>>>>> Fidelco has contract issues. The issues are definitely personal
>>>>> and not Fidelco's fault.
>>>>> I have had nothing but good experiences with Fidelco over the last
>>>>> three years and I know a lot of people who feel the same way.
>>>>> There are a certain handful of folks on this list who have
>>>>> personal issues with Fidelco and tend to be much louder than the
>>>>> people who have good experiences.
>>>>> You should definitely read the contract to make sure you are aware
>>>>> of the rules. That is the case with any guy dog school. Just
>>>>> keep an open mind.
>>>>> Every school has good and bad things. Every school has someone
>>>>> who loves them and hates them. I'd recommend that you decide what
>>>>> breed you want, see what school meets your needs the best, and go
>>>>> forward from there.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Mike
>>>>>
>>>>> On Oct 31, 2013, at 12:18 PM, "Larry D. Keeler"
>>>>> <lkeeler at comcast.net
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> First, watch out for Fidelco! They have contract issues.
>>>>> Before
>>>>> you
>>>>> decide, make sure you read and understand the contract. The other
>>>>> thing, schools when possible do give you a choice. Now always can
>>>>> they accomidate but usually they can. I went to Pilot because I
>>>>> wanted a poodle. They breed them down there. However, I ended
>>>>> up qith a labradoodle wich is almost as good! As for training at
>>>>> school or at home, I think it would be more useful to train at hom.
>>>>> But, if you know your neighborhood, it doesn't matter as much.
>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Shickeytha Chandler"
>>>>> <shickeytha at gmail.com
>>>>> To: <nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>>>> Sent: Thursday, October 31, 2013 11:44 AM
>>>>> Subject: [nagdu] Guide Dog Schools
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Hello all,
>>>>>
>>>>> I am new to the list. I currently travel with a cane, but am very
>>>>> seriously considering getting a guide dog in the near future.
>>>>> I
>>>>> am
>>>>> doing research on guide dog schools to see which might be best for
>>>>> me.
>>>>> I am considering Fidelco, Guiding Eyes and the Seeing Eye.
>>>>> Does
>>>>> anyone
>>>>> on this list have either particularly positive or especially
>>>>> negative experiences with any of these schools? If so, I would be
>>>>> interested to hear your feedback. Also, I noticed that Fidelco
>>>>> does training at your residence, whereas the other schools bring
>>>>> you to their campuses for training. I would like to hear
>>>>> perspectives about the disadvantages and advantages of each of
>>>>> these methods of
>>>> training.
>>>>>
>>>>> Finally, I know that various types of dogs are trained as guides,
>>>>> ranging from labs to German Shepherds. I would like to know if
>>>>> schools give you a choice as to what type of dog you are paired with.
>>>>> Also, I
>>>>> would be interested to hear from anyone who has worked with dogs
>>>>> of various kinds; I'd like to know your thoughts as to whether
>>>>> there are distinct qualities that one breed possesses that another
>>>>> breed does not generally possess. Of course, I am sure all dogs
>>>>> are unique, even within a breed type.
>>>>>
>>>>> I know that is a lot of questions for one email. Thanks in
>>>>> advance for any insight that you can provide.
>>>>>
>>>>> Shickeytha
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nagdu mailing list
>>>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>> for
>>>>> nagdu:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/lkeeler%40comc
>>>>> ast.net
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nagdu mailing list
>>>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>> for
>>>>> nagdu:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/blinkin4342%40
>>>>> gmail.com
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nagdu mailing list
>>>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>> for
>>>>> nagdu:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/shickeytha%40g
>>>>> mail.com
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nagdu mailing list
>>>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>> for
>>>>> nagdu:
>>>>>
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/sparklylicious
>>>>> %40gmail.com
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nagdu mailing list
>>>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>> for
>>>>> nagdu:
>>>>>
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/jawsgirl87%40g
>>>>> mail.com
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nagdu mailing list
>>>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>> for
>>>>> nagdu:
>>>>>
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/minh.ha927%40g
>>>>> mail.com
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> "All men dream, but not equally. Those who dream by night in the
>>>>> dusty recesses of their minds, wake in the day to find that it was
>>>>> vanity:
>>>>> but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act on
>>>>> their dreams with open eyes, to make them possible." T. E.
>>>>> Lawrence
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nagdu mailing list
>>>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>> for
>>>>> nagdu:
>>>>>
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/shickeytha%40g
>>>>> mail.com
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nagdu mailing list
>>>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>> for
>>>>> nagdu:
>>>>>
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/ravend729%40gm
>>>>> ail.com
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Raven
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nagdu mailing list
>>>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>> for
>>>> nagdu:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/sparklylicious
>>>>> %40gmail.com
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nagdu mailing list
>>>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>> for
>>>> nagdu:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/jawsgirl87%40gmail.
>>>>> com
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nagdu mailing list
>>>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>> for
>>>> nagdu:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/sparklylicious%4
>>>>> 0
>>>>> g
>>>>> m
>>>>> ail.co
>>>>> m
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nagdu mailing list
>>>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>> for
>>>> nagdu:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/info%40michaelhi
>>>>> n
>>>>> g
>>>>> s
>>>>> on.com
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nagdu mailing list
>>>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>> for
>>>> nagdu:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/blinkin4342%40gm
>>>>> a
>>>>> i
>>>>> l
>>>>> .com
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nagdu mailing list
>>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>> for
>>> nagdu:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/blind411%40verizon.
>>>> net
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nagdu mailing list
>>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>> for
>>> nagdu:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/taiablas%40gmail.
>>>> c
>>>> o
>>>> m
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nagdu mailing list
>>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>> for
>>> nagdu:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/blind411%40verizon.
>>>> net
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nagdu mailing list
>>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>> for
>>> nagdu:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/cookcafe%40sc.rr.
>>>> c
>>>> o
>>>> m
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nagdu mailing list
>>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>> for
>>> nagdu:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/blinkin4342%40gma
>>>> i
>>>> l
>>>> .com
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nagdu mailing list
>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nagdu:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/blind411%40verizon.
>>> net
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nagdu mailing list
>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nagdu:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/blinkin4342%40gmai
>>> l
>>> .com
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nagdu mailing list
>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nagdu:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40waveca
>> ble.co
>> m
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nagdu mailing list
>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nagdu:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/lkeeler%40comcast.n
>> et
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nagdu mailing list
> nagdu at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nagdu:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/blind411%40verizon.net
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nagdu mailing list
> nagdu at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nagdu:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/lkeeler%40comcast.net
More information about the NAGDU
mailing list