[nagdu] [NAGDU] ownership RE: Guide Dog Schools
Larry D. Keeler
lkeeler at comcast.net
Tue Nov 5 22:14:08 UTC 2013
I have. In fact, I saw someone begging with there dog!
----- Original Message -----
From: "Darla Rogers" <djrogers0628 at gmail.com>
To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'"
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Tuesday, November 05, 2013 1:54 PM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] [NAGDU] ownership RE: Guide Dog Schools
> I haven't seen anyone begging, (blind), in over 35 years, so, to me,
> this clause would appear unnecessary.
> Darla & Huck\
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Nicole
> Torcolini
> Sent: Saturday, November 02, 2013 5:23 PM
> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] [NAGDU] ownership RE: Guide Dog Schools
>
> And where did you hear that version of the story?
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Mike
> Sent: Saturday, November 02, 2013 2:53 PM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] [NAGDU] ownership RE: Guide Dog Schools
>
> And yet again here we are referring to the same single incident with only
> one person's perspective and now people are on the warpath against
> Fidelco.
> I've heard the same story but not from her perspective. What I heard was
> that she wanted to send the dog back. She called Fidelco and told them to
> come and pick the dog up. She had already made the decision to give the
> dog
> back and did not want to try to fix the issues. When Fidelco came to her
> house they set aside a few days to work with her and the dog. Despite
> these
> attempts to try to rectify the issues the woman repeatedly told them to
> take
> the dog back The trainer had no sooner boarded the plane than the woman
> decided it was a bad idea and tried to stop the wheels that were already
> in
> motion. Instead of working with Fidelco she turned to NAGDU and here we
> are. The story immediately got spun out of proportion and changed so that
> Fidelco seems like the bad guys. This woman is not going to admit any
> wrongdoing of her own even though that is how I heard the story.
> So there you go, two different sides of the very same story. This is the
> reason I feel like boundaries are being overstepped. There is not, by a
> longshot, enough evidence to be throwing such a major tantrum. The
> evidence
> is not clear by far.
>
> Personally I don't blame the companies for not wanting to work with this
> organization. NAGDU has a history and a tendency to bully and strong-arm
> organizations into doing what they want instead of trying to work with
> them
> peacefully. Most of the things that I have seen come from this
> organization
> all seem like threats. I am not a member of this organization. I joined
> this
> mailing list after hearing about you all and hearing some bad stories. I
> wanted to find out for myself if the stories were true or if it was just
> people who have their feelings hurt.
> I think the majority of the people on this list are very sensible and are
> fair in their opinions. Unfortunately, there are a few who tend to be
> overwhelming with their very one sided opinions and try to sway the group
> into believing how they do even though they can't back their beliefs up
> with
> real facts and evidence. Instead, they take one single-story and refer
> back
> to it over and over like it is pure fact.
> If I were running a guy dog school I would not work with an organization
> that would try to stab me in my back as soon as possible once they
> disagree
> with something that I am doing.
> Personally I feel like there are better ways to get things done than to
> run
> a smear campaign. I feel like I am reading emails from a political party
> during elections sometimes.
> I get much more value out of the emails that come from the individuals
> that
> belong to this group rather then the official emails from the leadership.
> I
> hesitate to believe anything that has an official title at the beginning
> or
> end of it because of this whole situation. It's sad, but things always
> change weather sooner or later.
>
>
>
> Mike
>
>> On Nov 2, 2013, at 12:28 PM, "National Association of Guide Dog Users"
> <blind411 at verizon.net> wrote:
>>
>> Steve,
>> It is unfortunate you question my integrity. The information I have
>> received is as reliable as I can ascertain. One of the issues we face
>> in having others come forward results in the very agreement I have
>> posted to the list. If Fedelco has the right to repossess a guide dog
>> "for any other reason as determined by Fidelco in its sole and
>> absolute discretion", how confident can a consumer feel that objecting
>> to a particular practice would not result in retaliatory behavior to
>> remove the dog? If viewed from an objective point of view, do you
>> agree that such a broad clause instills fear rather than cooperation?
>> I have urged Fidelco consumers to come forward and they are unwilling
>> to
> do so because of such fear.
>>
>> The woman in Texas that was the subject of my April 2011 Braille
>> Monitor article asked for help because her dog was exhibiting fear as
>> the result of an incident that occurred in her neighborhood. She asked
>> Fidelco for help on a number of occasions, both in writing and by
>> phone. The result was that a trainer came to her home on the pretense
>> of helping her, advised the consumer she wanted to work the dog near
>> the place where it exhibited fear and, rather than doing so, loaded
>> the dog in the vehicle and drove away. There was no indication from
>> Fidelco that the dog would be Repossessed.
>>
>> When I spoke with Eliot Russman, he refused to discuss the issue
>> with me, citing confidentiality concerns in spite of a signed release
>> from the consumer. When pressed for an explanation, he referred me to
>> the agreement allowing for Fidelco's sole and absolute discretion to
>> repossess the dog. We afforded Fidelco the opportunity to share their
>> side of the story through this signed release and they refused to do
>> so. We also afforded Fidelco the opportunity to write a counterpoint
>> article for the Braille Monitor and they refused to do that,too. What
>> does their lack of transparency and accountability communicate? If
>> their action were warranted, why would they not explain their actions
>> instead of hiding behind false concerns over confidentiality?
>>
>> I wish I could share more information about the numerous complaints
>> I received about Fidelco as the result of the article; however, I must
>> respect the confidentiality of those who have expressed their concerns.
>> Their fear is warranted and the agreement I have posted is objective
>> evidence of the reality of this fear. BTW, are you aware that Fidelco
>> shut down the consumer user group discussion list shortly after my
>> article appeared and was posted to this list, generating discussions
>> of other such behaviors and concerns on the premise that it infringed
>> upon their trade mark? The group had been active for several years
>> with no concerns about trade mark infringement; however, when
>> consumers began expressing their concerns and relating their negative
> experiences, it was squashed. And Mr.
>> Russman refers to himself as a Libertarian!
>>
>> Fraternally yours,
>> Marion Gwizdala
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Mike
>> Sent: Saturday, November 02, 2013 10:24 AM
>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] [NAGDU] ownership RE: Guide Dog Schools
>>
>> I have tried many times, unsuccessfully, to get people to understand
>> that Fidelco does not do surprise visits. This is not their policy and
>> never has been. Tell me how it would make sense to pay one of your
>> employees to travel across the country to visit someone if you don't
>> even
> know they are home?
>> Fidelco is a nonprofit! They could not afford to run a policy like this!
>> I know plenty of Fidelco clients and none of them have ever been
>> surprised by a visit. They have all known weeks in advance.
>>
>> This story of a surprise visit is always from the same person and it's
>> always the same people bringing it up. Then they try to point to it as
>> fact when there are more of us who know that it is completely false.
>> So instead of Marian telling us all the story one more time, how about
>> the person who claims this is true come out and say so? I would love
>> to know the real story but I don't want to hear it from somebody I
>> don't feel like i can trust. I want to hear it from the source.
>>
>>>> On Nov 2, 2013, at 8:45 AM, "Steve & Shannon Cook"
>>>> <cookcafe at sc.rr.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> As far as Fidelco calling consumers when they are 5 minutes away is
>>> incorrect. Everytime a person from Fidelco comes to see me they have
>>> called a few weeks in advance to schedule an appointment. There are
>>> others here in my state with Fidelco dogs and they have done them the
>>> same way. You can believe it or not.
>>>
>>> Steve Cook
>>> Today I married my best friend.
>>> The one that I laugh with, live for, love.
>>> October 11, 2003
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of National
>>> Association of Guide Dog Users
>>> Sent: Friday, November 01, 2013 10:20 PM
>>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] [NAGDU] ownership RE: Guide Dog Schools
>>>
>>> Tai,
>>> I would actually prefer to respond on-list, as I believe it is
>>> important for consumers to be aware of such things. I have had a few
>>> consumers from Leader tell me they were told that, if they did not
>>> trim down their dogs they would be removed, even when the vet
>>> asserted they were at a healthy weight. I also had a couple whose
>>> harnesses were repossessed by Leader because an official from the
>>> Florida Division of Blind Services complained that their dogs were
>>> acting out aggressively. This official told Leader that the couple
>>> had been expelled from the Orientation and Adjustment Center because
>>> of their dogs' aggressive behavior, an assertion that was untrue.
>>> Someone also filed a complaint with Leader that this couple were
>>> neglecting their dogs, something that was investigated by the local
>>> animal control. I spoke with the investigator from animal control and
>>> he said there was no evidence of abuse or neglect and, in fact, the
>>> dogs toenails were painted. In his words, "People who abuse or
>>> neglect their dogs do not paint their nails!" In spite of the fact
>>> that there was no objective evidence of abuse or neglect and that the
>>> assertions of the DBS official were untrue, Leader repossessed their
>>> harnesses. BTW, the DBS
>> official was reprimanded by a demotion.
>>>
>>> I recently had a Southeastern consumer tell me that a trainer made
>>> a surprise visit to him and, a day or two later called to tell him
>>> that, if he did not slim down his dog, they would repossess it. This,
>>> in spite of the ownership policy in place at SEGDI.
>>>
>>> Then, of course, there is the case I wrote about in the April 2011
>>> issue of the Braille Monitor in which Fidelco repossessed a woman's
>>> dog after she made several attempts to have a trainer help her with
>>> some fear issues her dog was experiencing. I have had a number of
>>> Fidelco consumers tell me about similar incidents, however, they were
>>> unwilling to pursue them for fear of retribution. I have also been
>>> told it is a common practice of Fidelco to call consumers and tell
>>> them they are five minutes away and want to inspect their dogs. If
>>> they object, they are reminded of the clauses in the agreement that
>>> state, "I agree to allow Fidelco's representatives to inspect the dog
>>> and to survey my care and treatment of the dog at any reasonable time"
>>> and that violation of the agreement is cause for repossession of the
>>> dog. I assume Fidelco believes five minutes notice is "reasonable"!
>>> In my opinion, the Fidelco agreement speaks for itself on this topic!
>>> As a law student, what would you say about such an ownership
>>> agreement? I would say that it is ownership in name only with none of
>>> the rights and privileges normally ascribed to ownership! I would
>>> also say that, if one were to challenge Fidelco's right to repossess
>>> a dog after transferring ownership, the agreement would not stand the
>>> test of a legal
>> challenge.
>>>
>>> Fraternally yours,
>>> Marion Gwizdala
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Tai Blas
>>> Sent: Friday, November 01, 2013 1:00 PM
>>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] [NAGDU] ownership RE: Guide Dog Schools
>>>
>>> Marion,
>>>
>>> Which schools have been known to arbitrarily interfere and repossess
> dogs?
>>> If you'd prefer to respond to me off list, please do so at
>>> taiablas at gmail.com
>>>
>>> Thanks.
>>>
>>> Tai
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of National
>>> Association of Guide Dog Users
>>> Sent: Friday, November 01, 2013 11:42 AM
>>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] [NAGDU] ownership RE: Guide Dog Schools
>>>
>>> Mike,
>>>
>>> The issue is not one of "handing out pets" or "protecting an
>>> investment".
>>> It is one of dignity, respect, and accountability. Ownership carries
>>> with it certain privileges, among them the avoidance of arbitrary
>>> interference by those who fail to recognize the ability of the blind,
>>> believing their rights preempt those of the blind. No matter how you
>>> dissect this issue, the unwillingness to transfer ownership is
>>> founded in an archaic paternalistic attitude that cannot be
>>> justified by any
>> objective evidence.
>>>
>>> As Vice President Hingson stated and is our experience in light of
>>> the numerous instances in which guide dogs have been removed without
>>> cause, ownership is the only rational policy if one believes blind
>>> people should be treated equitably with our sighted peers. Though
>>> Fidelco asserts they transfer ownership after six months, their
>>> agreement is far short of true ownership. Since when does a car
>>> dealership have the right to repossess a dog at their sole and
>>> absolute discretion. I know there are those who will argue that a dog
>>> is diferent than a car; however, under the law, a dog is property no
>>> different than a car, in spite of the fact that it is a living
>>> breathing animal. In fact, following this argument to it slogical
>>> end, how much more attached does one become to a living being that
>>> offers unconcditional love an acceptance. After becoming attached to
>>> such a being, should we not have the right to protect ourselves from
>>> arbitrary, unjust interference from an organization that will result
>>> in an
>> emotional bond being broken without cause?
>>>
>>> Fraternally yours,
>>>
>>> Marion Gwizdala, President
>>> National Association of Guide Dog Users Inc.
>>> National Federation of the Blind
>>> (813) 626-2789 (Office)
>>> 888-NAGDU411 (Hotline
>>> President at nagdu.org
>>> www.nagdu.org
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Mike
>>> Sent: Friday, November 01, 2013 7:20 AM
>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] [NAGDU] ownership RE: Guide Dog Schools
>>>
>>> A lot of time and money gets infested into producing a guide dog. Its
>>> silly to try and pressure companies into giving complete ownership to
>>> the
>> handler.
>>> If it doesn't work out in six months or a year or even two then,
>>> depending on reason, that dog could go back to the company and
>>> eventually go help someone else.
>>> Why turn such an investment into someone's pet when it could be so
>>> much more for someone else.
>>> I personally don't agree with the bill of rights. People should just
>>> understand their school of choice. Its not our decision. Its theirs
>>> as a business. If we as consumers don't like it then we have other
>>> schools to pick from.
>>> If i ran a school id probably do the same thing. Its protecting an
>>> investment and smaller schools cant afford to hand out pets.
>>> JMO
>>>
>>> Mike
>>>
>>>> On Oct 31, 2013, at 9:45 PM, "Michael Hingson"
>>>> <info at michaelhingson.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hannah,
>>>>
>>>> The problem is that what we define as full ownership is not what the
>>>> schools usually mean. The Seeing Eye is an organization that
>>>> provides ownership. I am not as familiar with Pilot, but Chantel
>>>> indicates that Pilot also does give ownership.
>>>>
>>>> Other schools have different contracts that may or may not grant
>>>> full ownership, and that may require that if a guide retires within
>>>> some length of time the school may demand that the guide be returned
>>>> for retraining or for some other purpose. NAGDU has passed
>>>> resolutions calling on all schools to provide full ownership of
>>>> guide dogs upon graduation, and that same position is stated in
>>>> NAGDU's Guide Dog Consumer Bill of Rights. Most guide dog schools
>>>> are living in the past and are as a result paternalistic to one
>>>> degree
> or another.
>>>> They do not see the tide of aware consumers which is turning against
>>>> them and which is demanding the same rights given to other citizens
>>>> in other
>>> training situations.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Best,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Michael Hingson
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Hannah
>>>> Chadwick
>>>> Sent: Thursday, October 31, 2013 7:22 PM
>>>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
>>>> Subject: [nagdu] ownership RE: Guide Dog Schools
>>>>
>>>> Chantel,
>>>> Thank you for the correction.
>>>> Can someone please define complete ownership when it comes to guide
>>>> dogs? I mean, if we get complete ownership, then doesn't that mean
>>>> I'd get to keep the dog no matter the age when that dog stops
>>>> working? I'm just curious since I was told that I had to send my dog
>>>> back to the school because she didn't work out but she was only 3.
>>>> Thank you, hannah
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Chantel
>>>> Cuddemi
>>>> Sent: Thursday, October 31, 2013 7:08 PM
>>>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Guide Dog Schools
>>>>
>>>> Hanna,
>>>>
>>>> Pilot Dogs gives us graduates full ownership of our dogs upon
>>>> graduation from the program.
>>>>
>>>> Hope that helped,
>>>>
>>>> Chantel and Motley of Pilot Dogs.
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Hannah
>>>> Chadwick
>>>> Sent: Thursday, October 31, 2013 7:56 PM
>>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Guide Dog Schools
>>>>
>>>> Yes, GDB can provide more financial help if needed. I think that
>>>> larger schools tend to have more follow-up services because they
>>>> have more funds as well as trainers. I don't think Pilot gives
>>>> complete ownership, but I could be wrong since that wasn't one of my
>>>> concerns when I applied. Pilot also trains boxers and Dobermans in
>>>> addition to
>>> what Raven mentioned.
>>>> On one hand I think that it is important to have a breed preference,
>>>> but on the other, I think it is the training that matters the most.
>>>> There are good things and bad things about every breed of dog. The
>>>> work you put in is what you will get out. The more effort you put
>>>> into your dog will mean more success with your team. When you get
>>>> your dog, please remember that the bonding process takes between 6
>>>> months and a year. As in my earlier email, please feel free to
>>>> email me off list if you want to know about Pilot or Guide Dogs for
>>>> the
> Blind.
>>>> Good luck, Hannah and Spritzie
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: Raven Tolliver <ravend729 at gmail.com
>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org Date sent: Thu, 31 Oct 2013 19:39:50 -0400
>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Guide Dog Schools
>>>>
>>>> Hi,
>>>> I attended Guiding Eyes for the Blind primarily because I wanted an
>>>> adult dog. As a person who never owned or handled a dog before, I
>>>> thought it important to have a dog that was physically and mentally
>>>> mature, and had established mannerisms. I wanted a golden
>>>> retriever, and goldens and German shepherds have a better work ethic
>>>> as
> adults.
>>>> This has been proven in studies of guide dog programs and service
>>>> dog programs.
>>>> I also chose GEB because of the financial assistance. Students are
>>>> allotted $200 annually, and if your dog is 10 pounds within their
>>>> target weight, the student is given another $100. There is also an
>>>> emergency fund, but it can only be used once during a particular
>>>> dog's
>> career.
>>>> The GDB grads can correct me if I'm wrong, but I think GDB gives
>>>> more financial assistance than this. Grads from that program can
>>>> explain the
>>> logistics better.
>>>> As far as what breed of dog is best at guide work, that depends on
>>>> the person. I have always adored the gentle nature and laid-back
>>>> temperament of a golden, and I would not want to live with the high
>>>> energy and quirkiness of a typical labrador. German shepherds are
>>>> very serious about their work, but they have high energy requirements.
>>>> All
>>>> three breeds are extremely loving, loyal and obedient if you bond
>>>> with them properly. All three breeds have double coats, so they
>>>> both shed a lot. I do not know as much about the other breeds put
>>>> out by Pilot dogs, but people have success with them, so you would
>>>> have to ask the handlers of poodles, dobermans, and Vieszlas.
>>>> You have to decide for yourself what you like or don't like in a dog.
>>>> And the personality is just as, if not more, important than breed.
>>>> Also, know that if you are picky about breed that it may take longer
>>>> to find you the right dog and get a class date. I was fortunate
>>>> that my golden was available so soon after I applied, but I knew
>>>> that being choosy might mean a longer wait.
>>>> To determine which school might be right for you, you should rate
>>>> the following factors by importance to you.
>>>> location of school, home-training program, special needs program,
>>>> cost of the program, length of program, financial assistance, follow
>>>> up services, ownership policy, training methods, choice to meet and
>>>> keep in touch with your dog's puppy-raisers, graduation ceremony,
>>>> breeds offered, life stage of dogs issued These are just what I can
>>>> think of for now, but there are more factors that others will bring
>>>> to your
>>> attention.
>>>> If ownership is important to you, the Seeing Eye, Pilot Dogs, or
>>>> Guide Dogs of America are options. If you don't understand why
>>>> ownership is important to some people, then I will explain upon
>>>> request, because it is a very serious issue that every service dog
>>>> handler should have proper understanding of.
>>>> If home-training is important to you this is offered by Fidelco,
>>>> Guiding Eyes, and a couple other programs. Guiding Eyes usually
>>>> does home-training with returning graduates, but they have been
>>>> known to approve it for first time trainees.
>>>> I would encourage you to complete your training with your first
>>>> guide dog at the school if it is at all possible and convenient for
>>>> you.
>>>> The benefit is that you will not likely feel alone in the struggles
>>>> you will experience, and also, you can get great training and doggie
>>>> care tips from experienced guide dog handlers. In addition, you
>>>> could develop long standing relationships with other classmates,
>>>> which was a
>>> plus for me.
>>>> Good luck, and email me off list if you want to know more about my
>>>> Guiding Eyes experience.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 10/31/13, Shickeytha Chandler <shickeytha at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Thank you all for your responses. I have actually been leaning
>>>> toward a lab or a golden because I have heard in the past that those
>>>> types of dogs are very loyal and have an even temperament. But at
>>>> the same time, I want to have an open mind and consider what other
>>>> types of dogs might have to offer. By the way, I love the names of
>>>> all three of your dogs. Great dog names!
>>>>
>>>> On 10/31/13, minh ha <minh.ha927 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Hi Shickeytha,
>>>>
>>>> I want to echo what Hannah said in her email. I am working with my
>>>> first guide, Viva from Guide Dogs for the Blind on their Oregon
>>>> campus. As a college student, financial and post-graduation support
>>>> were the two most critical aspects that I was looking for in a guide
>>>> dog school. I felt like GDB provided both of these and I really
>>>> liked their positive training methods as well as the respectful way
>>>> they treat their handlers. Regarding the breed of dog, I think that
>>>> ultimately needs to be your decision. Each individual has their
>>>> preference and people are going to tell you their choice is the best.
>>>> GDB only works with labs and golden retrievers. My girl is a lab
>>>> and I couldn't have asked for a better dog; she's extremely
>>>> energetic and playful, but she's an excellent worker once the
>>>> harness
> goes on.
>>>>
>>>> Minh
>>>>
>>>> On 10/31/13, Chantel Cuddemi <jawsgirl87 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Welcome to the list!
>>>>
>>>> I am working my first dog from Pilot Dogs, a standard poodle named
>>> Motley!
>>>>
>>>> We've been a team for a year and eight months.
>>>>
>>>> Good luck with what school you choose!
>>>>
>>>> Chantel and Motley.
>>>>
>>>> On 10/31/13, Hannah Chadwick <sparklylicious at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Hey,
>>>> Welcome to the list. I'm working my second guide, Spritz. She is
>>>> from Guide Dogs for the Blind. She is a black lab; I got her over
>>>> the
>>> summer.
>>>> Since I'm a college student and having had a previous dog that was
>>>> very high-maintenance, I knew I would need financial assistance and
>>>> after support. Those were two of the major things I looked for
>>>> when I applied to schools. The training methods (positive vs
>>>> negative) used in schools also mattered to me. Of course which may
>>>> vary on an individual and team basis, but I've come to realize that
>>>> food rewards go a long way. My first dog was from Pilot because I
>>>> wanted a poodle, but
>>> she retired after almost a year.
>>>> My training experience at Pilot was good, but I wasn't as
>>>> experienced so I didn't have the necessary tools to manage such a
>>>> high-strung dog. Please email me off-list if you have further
>> questions.
>>>> Good luck with the application process and all that.
>>>> Best, Hannah and Spritz
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: Shickeytha Chandler <shickeytha at gmail.com
>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org Date sent: Thu, 31 Oct 2013 14:08:20 -0400
>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Guide Dog Schools
>>>>
>>>> No problem. I understand that different people have different
>>>> experiences and perspectives, and I think it is important to
>>>> consider both positive and negative. Thanks.
>>>>
>>>> On 10/31/13, Mike <blinkin4342 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> As a Fidelco client I completely disagree with the statement that
>>>> Fidelco has contract issues. The issues are definitely personal
>>>> and not Fidelco's fault.
>>>> I have had nothing but good experiences with Fidelco over the last
>>>> three years and I know a lot of people who feel the same way.
>>>> There are a certain handful of folks on this list who have personal
>>>> issues with Fidelco and tend to be much louder than the people who
>>>> have good experiences.
>>>> You should definitely read the contract to make sure you are aware
>>>> of the rules. That is the case with any guy dog school. Just keep
>>>> an open mind.
>>>> Every school has good and bad things. Every school has someone who
>>>> loves them and hates them. I'd recommend that you decide what
>>>> breed you want, see what school meets your needs the best, and go
>>>> forward from there.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Mike
>>>>
>>>> On Oct 31, 2013, at 12:18 PM, "Larry D. Keeler"
>>>> <lkeeler at comcast.net
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> First, watch out for Fidelco! They have contract issues.
>>>> Before
>>>> you
>>>> decide, make sure you read and understand the contract. The other
>>>> thing, schools when possible do give you a choice. Now always can
>>>> they accomidate but usually they can. I went to Pilot because I
>>>> wanted a poodle. They breed them down there. However, I ended up
>>>> qith a labradoodle wich is almost as good! As for training at
>>>> school or at home, I think it would be more useful to train at hom.
>>>> But, if you know your neighborhood, it doesn't matter as much.
>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Shickeytha Chandler"
>>>> <shickeytha at gmail.com
>>>> To: <nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>>> Sent: Thursday, October 31, 2013 11:44 AM
>>>> Subject: [nagdu] Guide Dog Schools
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Hello all,
>>>>
>>>> I am new to the list. I currently travel with a cane, but am very
>>>> seriously considering getting a guide dog in the near future.
>>>> I
>>>> am
>>>> doing research on guide dog schools to see which might be best for me.
>>>> I am considering Fidelco, Guiding Eyes and the Seeing Eye.
>>>> Does
>>>> anyone
>>>> on this list have either particularly positive or especially
>>>> negative experiences with any of these schools? If so, I would be
>>>> interested to hear your feedback. Also, I noticed that Fidelco does
>>>> training at your residence, whereas the other schools bring you to
>>>> their campuses for training. I would like to hear perspectives
>>>> about the disadvantages and advantages of each of these methods of
>>> training.
>>>>
>>>> Finally, I know that various types of dogs are trained as guides,
>>>> ranging from labs to German Shepherds. I would like to know if
>>>> schools give you a choice as to what type of dog you are paired with.
>>>> Also, I
>>>> would be interested to hear from anyone who has worked with dogs of
>>>> various kinds; I'd like to know your thoughts as to whether there
>>>> are distinct qualities that one breed possesses that another breed
>>>> does not generally possess. Of course, I am sure all dogs are
>>>> unique, even within a breed type.
>>>>
>>>> I know that is a lot of questions for one email. Thanks in advance
>>>> for any insight that you can provide.
>>>>
>>>> Shickeytha
>>>>
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>>>> --
>>>> "All men dream, but not equally. Those who dream by night in the
>>>> dusty recesses of their minds, wake in the day to find that it was
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