[nagdu] re ownership

Thu Nov 14 18:56:28 UTC 2013

Hi,
The quality of the dogs issued and the training methods a school uses
are far more important to me than ownership. There are schools that
grant full ownership, but use and teach training methods that I do not
approve of. There are schools that grant full ownership, but do not
put out the type or quality of dogs I desire to work with. Ownership
is a plus, but not something that I must have. I attended a school
that provides financial assistance to all of its clients, and does not
ask for a penny in return. I'm perfectly comfortable with not having
full ownership. Ownership is an option after two years of working a
dog, and I am not very concerned and counting down the days till the
end of next June.

On 11/14/13, Tracy Carcione <carcione at access.net> wrote:
> Ownership has come to mean more to me over the years.  When I was a GDB
> client, I chose ownership because I wanted the full legal and moral
> responsibility for my dog.  If I felt she needed surgery, for instance, I
> didn't want to feel obligated to notify the school and discuss it.  I
> figured it was between me and my vet to choose the best course of action.
> Which is what I did, even when I didn't officially own my dog, but I felt
> like I was being a bit sneaky.
> Now I have switched to The Seeing Eye, where I get ownership as soon as I
> leave, as a matter of course.  I like that very much.  Others are of course
>
> free to feel differently.
> Tracy
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <craig.heaps at comcast.net>
> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Thursday, November 14, 2013 1:24 PM
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] re ownership
>
>
>>I am one of those who really doesn't care. My guide, Chase, is great and we
>>
>>have a wonderful bond. But that's not changed by who owns him. At Guide
>>Dogs for the Blind, I can apply for ownership after a year. I've had Chase
>>
>>four months now, and I'm not sure I'll apply in eight months from now. I'm
>>
>>really not concerned they are going to take Chase away from me. That is not
>>
>>to say I don't understand and respect the opinions of those who want
>>ownership of their guides.
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>>
>> From: "Larry D. Keeler" <lkeeler at comcast.net>
>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Thursday, November 14, 2013 10:05:28 AM
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] re ownership
>>
>> Aggreed! Although I'm in favor of ownership, I know some who just don't
>> care! I do strongly recomend that folks should look at the school
>> contracts
>> before they sign so as to know as much as possible and avoid unpleasant
>> surprises! The contracts should be lookede at and us as consumers should
>> decide based on what we like or don't.
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "GARY STEEVES" <rainshadowmusic at shaw.ca>
>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Thursday, November 14, 2013 12:40 PM
>> Subject: [nagdu] re ownership
>>
>>
>>> Hi All:
>>>
>>> I have to weigh in on this conversation with a potential guide dog user.
>>>
>>> I
>>> am in total agreement that ownership is one of the issues I recommend
>>> people look at when picking a school but I think we should keep away
>>> from
>>> blanket statements about what is good or bad. It is up to the individual
>>> to assess how they feel about the owner rules. I think it is important
>>> to
>>> talk to a school about why they have such a policy and when do they
>>> enforce it. I wasn't happy that the school I went to had a policy where
>>> they have ownership until retirement but I decided to go there anyways.
>>> Once I got there and talked with the trainers and head of their program
>>> I
>>> learned that they have very rarely taken a dog back and it is 99%
>>> because
>>> a person has let their dog get extremely over weight. Even then, they
>>> take
>>> the dog for three months to get it's weight down and work with the
>>> client
>>> to further educate them on looking after their dog. After the 3 months
>>> they return the dog and monitor the situation closely. They will take
>>> the
>>> dog away if it is allowed to get over weight again. So, yes I would
>>> prefer
>>> ownership but am able to live with this policy at this time. However, it
>>> is not as simple as saying I lent you a book and I can just take it back
>>> at any time, or at least all situations wouldn't be that cut and dry.
>>>
>>> Gary
>>>
>>> PS: I'm celebrating that I got very behind on the list last year. My
>>> webmail doesn't allow bulk deletes so I actually went through over 4000
>>> emails in the past six months and am now finally up to date! Silly but
>>> made me feel good to delete the last old message from September 2012. :)
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: barbandzoe at comcast.net
>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Thu, 14 Nov 2013 09:51:57 -0700 (MST)
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Hi
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I work at a fitness club, I do laundry and locker room attendant I am
>>> part
>>> time right now and have no vacation and sick pay.
>>>
>>> I had always though that guide dogs were only for people with no sight,
>>> and now I find that people who are legally blind can use a guide dog. I
>>> don't like using a cane I feel funny. Plus I have had abit of trouble
>>> with
>>> night and bright day vision since I get glaucoma. Plus I am in my
>>> fifties
>>> and go home at night and I end up in the best part of town. I have not
>>> had
>>> trouble yet, but all the people going to the bar and the guys out pan
>>> handling, well it would be nice to have a friend with me. plus sometimes
>>> when I cross so of the busier streets, it is a bit of a guessing game.
>>> Plus I would have had a dog and time ago if I would have known this.
>>>
>>> If it is a cane or dog, I will take the dog anyday.
>>>
>>> Barb
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>
>>> From: "Star Gazer" <pickrellrebecca at gmail.com>
>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Thursday, November 14, 2013 10:28:17 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Hi
>>>
>>> Not necessarily.
>>> Talk to other schools, GDF, Guiding Eyes, Leader, you've got nothing to
>>> loose.
>>> Leader Dogs also doesn't grant ownership.
>>> I'm not sure about Guiding Eyes. GDF does. Any school that doesn't grant
>>> ownership can take your dog back. Think of it like renting. If that
>>> gives
>>> you the willies, then you do need a school that grants ownership.
>>> Could you take medical leave or vacation time? Would you want to do
>>> this?
>>> I'm curious, what do you do? And, why do you want a dog now? Maybe if
>>> you
>>> can explain that to your employer, you'll have better luck?
>>> I had two dogs, and now use a cane. If you like, email me off-list.
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
>>> barbandzoe at comcast.net
>>> Sent: Thursday, November 14, 2013 10:22 AM
>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Hi
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> Thanks for that. I don't have the option to say it's like taking
>>> classes,
>>> cause we have no classes to take that would help me in my job. I am a
>>> low
>>> level employee and they can find some one w=else to do my job.
>>>
>>> I have herd that about fidelco the taking of the dog. That does bother
>>> me.
>>> But if I want a dog I would have to go through them because I can't get
>>> that kind of time off.
>>>
>>>
>>> Barb
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>
>>> From: "Star Gazer" <pickrellrebecca at gmail.com>
>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Thursday, November 14, 2013 8:03:14 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Hi
>>>
>>> Barb,
>>> Talk to your boss and present it as training like computer or other
>>> training, training that you will use to help make you a better employee.
>>> Look at your com Pany and see what types of courses they offer, many do
>>> offer multiweek courses of all kinds.
>>> I'd approach from that angle.
>>> As for Fildelco, you have to understand that they don't grant ownership,
>>> which means they can take your dog at any time for any reason. It's be
>>> like if I lent you my Ipod, I could come and get it whenever I liked.
>>> The
>>> school may never do this to you, but they do have that option.
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
>>> barbandzoe at comcast.net
>>> Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2013 10:33 PM
>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Hi
>>>
>>> Yes, I have herd about things with fidelco, but I don't know what the
>>> issues are. I don't want trouble, and if I find they are to stricked in
>>> some of their needs and conditions, I will look into another school. If
>>> the people who have dogs from fidelco get this, could they tell me what
>>> I
>>> may need to know. I know Seeing Eye has GSD's but they have a four week
>>> program. How if I can get my boss to let me talk that time, I would go
>>> there, or pilot dogs.
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>> Barb
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>
>>> From: "Tai Blas" <taiablas at gmail.com>
>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2013 8:46:46 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Hi
>>>
>>> Best of luck choosing a school. Whatever school you choose, be sure to
>>> familiarize yourself with its contract. Some schools do not grant you
>>> full
>>> ownership of your dog and requires certain conditions be met. There are
>>> several people who got dogs from Fidelco on this list.
>>>
>>>
>>> Tai
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>>> On Nov 12, 2013, at 8:26 PM, barbandzoe at comcast.net wrote:
>>>>
>>>> II have been looking into Fidelco, mostly because they come to my house
>>>> and train there for about three weeks, plus I really want a GSD. It is
>>>> hard enough to get a couple of days off work two to four weeks would be
>>>> hard. I know that I still have to take time off to train with Fidelco,
>>>> but if I can't get a shift covered, maybe we could use that as a
>>>> training
>>>> session. Plus I have two dogs at home that are my roommates, and the
>>>> trainer could maybe help with introducing them.
>>>>
>>>> Barb
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>
>>>> From: "Tai Blas" <taiablas at gmail.com>
>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2013 2:49:09 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Hi
>>>>
>>>> Welcome to the list. It is my understanding that Guide Dogs for the
>>>> Blind
>>>> has a two week training program. They have campuses in California and
>>>> Oregon. Their website is www.guidedogs.com.
>>>>
>>>> Tai
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>
>>>>> On Nov 12, 2013, at 2:34 PM, barbandzoe at comcast.net wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi am knew to the list, and my name is Barb
>>>>>
>>>>> I am looking into getting a guide dog, but haven't gotten any pepper
>>>>> work yet. I am still looking at schools, but I am finding the 4 weeks
>>>>> away from home and work a bit much to work around. I want a dog and
>>>>> hope
>>>>> to get things started soon.
>>>>>
>>>>> Barb
>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>> om
>>>>
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>>
>>
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>
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-- 
Raven