[nagdu] Why Labradors?

Tue Sep 17 14:49:02 UTC 2013

Hi Tracy,
That's promising. I suppose it wouldn't kill to try out a lab, several
years from now, when I'm applying for the next dog, if that's what I
choose to do. I mean, I would still shoot for a golden, but if I ended
up with a well-behaved, low energy, calm, gentle labrador, I would
stick with it to really experience the difference between the two
breeds.

On 9/17/13, Tracy Carcione <carcione at access.net> wrote:
> Hi Raven.  You'd need a lab like my Benny, then.  He's extremely quiet.  I
> say he has a stuffed animal switch.  He lies down, flips the switch, and
> turns himself into a stuffed animal.  He only dances around for a few
> minutes a day.  I've never met another dog like him.
> Tracy
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Raven Tolliver" <ravend729 at gmail.com>
> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Monday, September 16, 2013 11:18 PM
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Why Labradors?
>
>
>> Yeah, I think the puppy-like behavior is what bothers me. If I wanted
>> a puppy, I would get one. That insane behavior and getting into things
>> is exactly what I'm referring to when I say they are high-strung,
>> goofy,and quirky. The running in circles, barking or growling--that's
>> a little nuts. Going after everything on the floor, or jumping up to
>> grab things that are on counters or high up--that's a nuisance.
>> I just don't think a labrador would ever be for me. I prefer a more
>> laid-back, mature, and well-mannered golden. I like a dog that's
>> perfectly fine with working all day from 9 to 9, but also okay with
>> sitting around the apartment all day with a couple play sessions
>> thrown in. I just don't need a dog with high energy requirements.
>> There's other reasons why I wouldn't get a lab, but the ones above are
>> big contributing factors.
>>
>>
>> On 9/16/13, Darla Rogers <djrogers0628 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Hi Debbie,
>>> Leone sounds really cute, though I haven't always experienced, with
>>> my labs, the puppyish behavior until 5.  Huck still has some, but he
>>> never
>>> bothers anything in the house though he is much happier working and
>>> going
>>> places.
>>> The puppy part, if it isn't destructive, is one of the things I love
>>> about labs; they enjoy life!!!!  They usually enjoy their work, too, and
>>> they are seldom in a bad mood.
>>> Darla & HANDSOME Huck
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Debbie Cole
>>> Sent: Monday, September 16, 2013 5:43 PM
>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Why Labradors?
>>>
>>> Labradores... they always have the minds and hearts of a puppy.  they
>>> just
>>> never seem to grow up.  We need to baby proof our house.  No socks or
>>> objects left where she can get to them.  Coffee Tables must be cleaned.
>>> Remote controls up high.
>>>
>>> My Leone she gets this playful behavior mostly in the evenings after her
>>> 2nd
>>> to last walk.  (we're in an apartment with no yard) If i'm at the
>>> computer
>>> she will look at me from 5 feet away then start barking and running
>>> around
>>> the living room.  this means let's play.  she's 5.
>>> Still a puppy.  So I get her bone or a tug toy and i play tug with her
>>> or
>>> throw her kongs.  Until she's tired.
>>>
>>> Once a Lab always a puppy.
>>>
>>> Debbie & Leone
>>>
>>> On 9/16/13, Sherry Gomes <sherriola at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> My Bianca has had horrible house behavior, but I attribute that to her
>>>> intelligence. Her mind was always looking for something to do. I
>>>> learned dog proofing to a level I'd never needed before. Now she's
>>>> nearly thirteen, she can't physically get into the mischief she used
>>>> to do. But since nobody, dog or human is perfect, I accept the
>>>> negative side of their personalities. On the other hand, Olga, my
>>>> current working dog, would no more get into trouble in the house than
>>>> I would jump off a bridge! But though she's smart and a solid steady
>>>> worker, she doesn't have that edge and absolute brilliance Bianca has.
>>>> But she is the dog I need for my life as it is now. I work from home
>>>> now, and when Bianca was working, she'd have gone crazy with that kind
>>>> of schedule.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Raven
>>>> Tolliver
>>>> Sent: Monday, September 16, 2013 11:58 AM
>>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Why Labradors?
>>>>
>>>> I meant to put more of a focus on a lab's quirkiness than their
>>>> goofiness. I've definitely trained labradors that didn't goof off
>>>> during the session unless there was a toy involved, of course.
>>>> by work ethic, I guess I'm referring to the dog's concentration on and
>>>> sincerity during work. I hear too many stories about labs being
>>>> stubborn in harness about sniffing, scavenging, and snatching up
>>>> people's food, being far too high-strung, getting easily excited and
>>>> wild about little things, and having inappropriate house manners when
>>>> out of harness. It's very possible that this is the case because there
>>>> are more labs in the field than any other breed. Also, I know that
>>>> dogs are creatures of opportunity and it rests more on the handler to
>>>> maintain consistent control of their  dog than it rests on the dog to
>>>> restrain itself. despite having a lax handler. It may be true as well
>>>> that some of these behaviors are prominent because schools are giving
>>>> out adolescent dogs, and the inappropriate behaviors probably fade
>>>> with age.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 9/16/13, Sherry Gomes <sherriola at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> I have to agree. My labs aren't goofy in their work, and I like the
>>>>> silly side in their off work hours. My retired Bianca, a black lab,
>>>>> I'd
>>>> challenge
>>>>> against any breed with a stronger work ethic. I have pretty
>>>>> specialized needs in my guide. I need a dog that is 100 percent easy
>>>>> to manage, but at the same time, the dog has to be smart with great
>>>>> initiative. I can fall over a tiny crack in a sidewalk, for instance.
>>>>> And I must be a route traveler, because the longer I am on my feet,
>>>>> the more pain and time for recovering I might have to have. So, I
>>>>> need my dogs to be smart, to learn what I need to have done, where to
>>>>> be cautious, to be able to walk at a slow pace without getting
>>>>> distracted and not to have the sort of initiative
>>>> that
>>>>> makes them want to explore a little. During training, Bianca picked
>>>>> up everything I needed. She'd slow or even stop at dips for driveways
>>>>> on a sidewalk, or hesitate at the top of a wheel chair ramp as we
>>>>> approached a corner. She instinctively seemed to know what could trip
>>>>> me up and she'd look for the smoothest part of the area. She would
>>>>> remember a place we'd been to after one visit. When I worked at GDB,
>>>>> I had a nightmarish
>>>> crossing
>>>>> on my way to work, the sort of crossing I dread and avoid at all
>>>>> costs.
>>>>> There was no way to avoid it, and Bianca got me through it
>>>>> confidently, wagging her tail. I heard lots of people say labs and
>>>>> goldens don't have a strong work ethic and I think that's as wrong as
>>>>> someone else saying all shepherds are too hyper or can't handle
>>>>> stressful work, or any of the
>>>> other
>>>>> generalizations people make about breeds. There are good dogs and not
>>>> great
>>>>> dogs in all breeds, and not all individual dogs make great guides.
>>>>> I've seen guides from breeds I wouldn't have expected that were
>>>>> amazing, and I've seen horrible labs. I've had labs that didn't work
>>>>> out who weren't made to be guides. I've only ever worked labs and
>>>>> goldens, and I'd give a lot to have another golden, but the reasons I
>>>>> say that would probably have my golden from 15 years ago career
>>>>> changed now. She was very much a one-person dog who took a long time
>>>>> to turn over to her trainer and then to me and had severe separation
>>>>> anxiety. In the world of cookie cutter training and dogs, I don't
>>>>> think they'd give her the time she needed today. But man, was she
>>>>> ever one devoted and bonded dog. She have worked across the fires of
>>>>> hell for me if I'd asked her to. And yet, most people think goldens
>>>>> are silly. So it all comes down to that I think labs are predominant
>>>>> because they adjust well
>>>> to
>>>>> the changes in their lives, they are healthy, intelligent and
>>>>> friendly. A dog that can work and live in most any environment.
>>>>>
>>>>> Sherry
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Tracy
>>>>> Carcione
>>>>> Sent: Monday, September 16, 2013 10:27 AM
>>>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Why Labradors?
>>>>>
>>>>> I hear people talk about labrador goofiness, but none of my 5 labs
>>>>> have been what I'd call goofy, certainly not in harness.  Some have
>>>>> been quite playful out of harness, but very serious as soon as the
>>> harness went on.
>>>>> And, as for work ethic, they don't have the intensity of a shepherd,
>>>>> but they do take their work seriously.
>>>>> I guess I'm not real clear on what you mean by "work ethic".
>>>>> Tracy
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>> I never thought about the adjustment to a kennel environment as a
>>>>>> contributing factor toward what breed dominates the field, but it
>>>>>> makes sense. Also, coat and health maintenance seem like sensible
>>>>>> reasons on the surface. Obviously, we want healthy dogs, but
>>>>>> personally, I would look for a more serious work ethic and less
>>>>>> quirkiness and goofiness in a guide dog.
>>>>>> I just thought it would be an interesting question since there are
>>>>>> two US guide dog schools that only train German shepherds as guide
>>>>>> dogs, and now there is a school in the south that trains several
>>>>>> breeds for guide work, none of which are labradors.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 9/16/13, Tracy Carcione <carcione at access.net> wrote:
>>>>>>> I think labradors have many excellent guide dog qualities, and that
>>>>>>> is why they're so dominant in the field.
>>>>>>> They're intelligent, but don't have to second-guess every single
>>>>>>> thing their partner asks them to do.
>>>>>>> They're adaptable to a wide variety of environments and a wide
>>>>>>> variety of handlers.  Labs can work well with everything from the
>>>>>>> busy college student to the elderly person who may not get out
>>>>>>> every single day.
>>>>>>> They have an easy-care coat, which does not go through big shedding
>>>>>>> periods, and doesn't tend to get matted.
>>>>>>> They are generally healthy--not particularly prone to allergies,
>>>>>>> digestive complaints, or other medical issues.
>>>>>>> These two things make them easy keepers, even for inexperienced dog
>>>>>>> people.
>>>>>>> They tend to be even-tempered, not prone to snappiness or timidity.
>>>>>>> From what I hear, they are less likely to be upset by a kennel
>>>>>>> environment, which is helpful to the big schools.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I've had 6 dogs, and 5 have been labs.  Shepherds are very
>>>>>>> handsome, but the one I had was pretty high-maintenance.  I'd be
>>>>>>> open to a different breed next time, but I won't be the least upset
>>>>>>> if I get another lab.
>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>> think they're one of the finest breeds around.
>>>>>>> Tracy
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> There are certainly other breeds besides labs that make good guide
>>>>>>>> dogs and other types of service dogs, but I have also seen certain
>>>>>>>> breeds, such as collies, which, JMHO, should not be service dogs.
>>>>>>>> Some breeds are smart, but do not have the want-to-please
>>>>>>>> mentality  found in some of the breeds more commonly used for
>>>>>>>> guide dogs.
>>>>>>>> As for goldens, I think that they may be a little more laid back
>>>>>>>> than labs.
>>>>>>>> I do not know if German Shepherds are more sensative to
>>>>>>>> corrections, but I do know that they are more likely to not eat or
>>>>>>>> get slightly sick when adjusting to change or in stressful
>>>>>>>> situations, such as traveling.
>>>>>>>> Also,
>>>>>>>> they are more likely to have medical or aggression problems, which
>>>>>>>> is partiallywhy, sadly, GDB no longer trains German Shepherds.
>>>>>>>> I have not interacted much with dobermen pinchers, but, from what
>>>>>>>> other people have said, I'm not quite sure why they are not used
>>>>>>>> more. I guess that, once schools find breeds that work, they are
>>>>>>>> less likely to try something new.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Nicole
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Raven
>>>>>>>> Tolliver
>>>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, September 15, 2013 9:22 AM
>>>>>>>> To: nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> Subject: [nagdu] Why Labradors?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>>> I am wondering why the majority of dogs trained in most guide dog
>>>>>>>> programs are labrador retrievers. What is it about that breed that
>>>>>>>> makes them dominate in the guide dog field?
>>>>>>>> I notice that in other service dog areas, this breed is not used
>>>>>>>> as often.
>>>>>>>> And when people train their own guide dogs or have them privately
>>>>>>>> trained, it seems that labradors are rarely chosen. What advantage
>>>>>>>> do guide dog programs feel labradors have over other breeds like
>>>>>>>> the golden retriever, German shepherd, doberman pinscher, or even
>>>>>>>> the Australian shepherd.
>>>>>>>> When I asked a GEB instructor why they didn't pass more goldens
>>>>>>>> through, they said it was because a lot of goldens (their goldens
>>>>>>>> anyway), didn't have the confidence it took to be a guide dog.
>>>>>>>> They were not confident enough to make independent or executive
>>>>>>>> decisions.
>>>>>>>> Also, I have heard that German shepherds are more sensitive to
>>>>>>>> corrections, and also require more of a routine. They do not adapt
>>>>>>>> to new environments or change as well as other breeds.
>>>>>>>> Do you guys find this to be true? What do you think?
>>>>>>>> Thanks.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> Raven
>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Raven
>>>>>>
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>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Raven
>>>>
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>>
>> --
>> Raven
>>
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-- 
Raven