[nagdu] Why Labradors?

Tue Sep 17 18:17:19 UTC 2013

Curing licking is easy--well--mostly.

This requires some quickness!  When the tongue comes out, grab it and don't 
allow the dog to get it back for a period of time; 10 seconds was the fix 
for my licker who BTW, just happened to be a shepherd.  My retriever was not 
at all a licker.

Doug: with tongue out of cheek!
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "I. C. Bray" <i.c.bray at win.net>
To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users" 
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Tuesday, September 17, 2013 12:25 PM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Why Labradors?

: Tami,
:
: I always look forward to your posts!!
:
: I don't like hair either, but I like poodles even less... No offense!!
: Smart dog, yes... yes... I know!  Too smart if you ask me.  There is one
: around here who is NOT well behaved and his Trainer won't make it behave.
:
: I like all the Yellow Labs I've met.
: I don't particularly care for goldens ... again hair, but also the
: licking... and licking... and licking.. and licking... and licking... oh,
: did I mention the licking?
:
: Does anyone have any advice to curtail that behavior?
:
: Ian
:
: ----- Original Message ----- 
: From: "Tami Jarvis" <tami at poodlemutt.com>
: To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
: <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
: Sent: Tuesday, September 17, 2013 12:12 PM
: Subject: Re: [nagdu] Why Labradors?
:
:
:: Raven,
::
:: For some reason, I've preferred "something other than lab" as a guide.
:: Don't know why, since I like labs. I guess there are other breeds I like
:: better. But I've come to the conclusion that when/if I go through a
:: program, I will no doubt be thrilled with a lab if that's what they
:: match me with.
::
:: It seems like another plus with labs in the business sense is that there
:: is a fair amount of variety in their temperaments, so more available
:: matches per litter. There are speedy, energetic labs and mellow,
:: laid-back labs. So apparently, they are less one-size-fits-all.
::
:: Then there are poodles... /lol/ I had viewed labs as super hyper and
:: goofy and was shocked to learn they were being used as guides. Then I
:: observed a couple in harness and realized they were great. It does make
:: sense, since they are hunting -- working -- dogs from before they became
:: the designated pet breed. Then I got a poodle, so I now see labs as
:: mellow and serious, even the pet lab pups doing their labby thing at hte
:: park. Lab owners see me as just plain nuts when I mention it must be
:: nice to have such a placid puppy... Until I explain that I have a
:: poodle. Oh. /lol/
::
:: I've known some hyper goofy pet goldens, too, but they seem to make
:: really great guides. For now, I'm still debating the poodle vs. dobie
:: choice for my next, and I still have my lifelong shepherd yen. Except
:: for the shedding there. Poodle has me and my spouse spoiled. So it's
:: down to poodle vs. dobie.
::
:: Tami
::
::
:: On 09/17/2013 07:49 AM, Raven Tolliver wrote:
:: > Hi Tracy,
:: > That's promising. I suppose it wouldn't kill to try out a lab, several
:: > years from now, when I'm applying for the next dog, if that's what I
:: > choose to do. I mean, I would still shoot for a golden, but if I ended
:: > up with a well-behaved, low energy, calm, gentle labrador, I would
:: > stick with it to really experience the difference between the two
:: > breeds.
:: >
:: > On 9/17/13, Tracy Carcione <carcione at access.net> wrote:
:: >> Hi Raven.  You'd need a lab like my Benny, then.  He's extremely 
quiet.
: I
:: >> say he has a stuffed animal switch.  He lies down, flips the switch,
: and
:: >> turns himself into a stuffed animal.  He only dances around for a few
:: >> minutes a day.  I've never met another dog like him.
:: >> Tracy
:: >>
:: >>
:: >> ----- Original Message -----
:: >> From: "Raven Tolliver" <ravend729 at gmail.com>
:: >> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
:: >> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
:: >> Sent: Monday, September 16, 2013 11:18 PM
:: >> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Why Labradors?
:: >>
:: >>
:: >>> Yeah, I think the puppy-like behavior is what bothers me. If I wanted
:: >>> a puppy, I would get one. That insane behavior and getting into 
things
:: >>> is exactly what I'm referring to when I say they are high-strung,
:: >>> goofy,and quirky. The running in circles, barking or growling--that's
:: >>> a little nuts. Going after everything on the floor, or jumping up to
:: >>> grab things that are on counters or high up--that's a nuisance.
:: >>> I just don't think a labrador would ever be for me. I prefer a more
:: >>> laid-back, mature, and well-mannered golden. I like a dog that's
:: >>> perfectly fine with working all day from 9 to 9, but also okay with
:: >>> sitting around the apartment all day with a couple play sessions
:: >>> thrown in. I just don't need a dog with high energy requirements.
:: >>> There's other reasons why I wouldn't get a lab, but the ones above 
are
:: >>> big contributing factors.
:: >>>
:: >>>
:: >>> On 9/16/13, Darla Rogers <djrogers0628 at gmail.com> wrote:
:: >>>> Hi Debbie,
:: >>>> Leone sounds really cute, though I haven't always experienced, with
:: >>>> my labs, the puppyish behavior until 5.  Huck still has some, but he
:: >>>> never
:: >>>> bothers anything in the house though he is much happier working and
:: >>>> going
:: >>>> places.
:: >>>> The puppy part, if it isn't destructive, is one of the things I love
:: >>>> about labs; they enjoy life!!!!  They usually enjoy their work, too,
: and
:: >>>> they are seldom in a bad mood.
:: >>>> Darla & HANDSOME Huck
:: >>>>
:: >>>>
:: >>>> -----Original Message-----
:: >>>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Debbie
: Cole
:: >>>> Sent: Monday, September 16, 2013 5:43 PM
:: >>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
:: >>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Why Labradors?
:: >>>>
:: >>>> Labradores... they always have the minds and hearts of a puppy. 
they
:: >>>> just
:: >>>> never seem to grow up.  We need to baby proof our house.  No socks 
or
:: >>>> objects left where she can get to them.  Coffee Tables must be
: cleaned.
:: >>>> Remote controls up high.
:: >>>>
:: >>>> My Leone she gets this playful behavior mostly in the evenings after
: her
:: >>>> 2nd
:: >>>> to last walk.  (we're in an apartment with no yard) If i'm at the
:: >>>> computer
:: >>>> she will look at me from 5 feet away then start barking and running
:: >>>> around
:: >>>> the living room.  this means let's play.  she's 5.
:: >>>> Still a puppy.  So I get her bone or a tug toy and i play tug with
: her
:: >>>> or
:: >>>> throw her kongs.  Until she's tired.
:: >>>>
:: >>>> Once a Lab always a puppy.
:: >>>>
:: >>>> Debbie & Leone
:: >>>>
:: >>>> On 9/16/13, Sherry Gomes <sherriola at gmail.com> wrote:
:: >>>>> My Bianca has had horrible house behavior, but I attribute that to
: her
:: >>>>> intelligence. Her mind was always looking for something to do. I
:: >>>>> learned dog proofing to a level I'd never needed before. Now she's
:: >>>>> nearly thirteen, she can't physically get into the mischief she 
used
:: >>>>> to do. But since nobody, dog or human is perfect, I accept the
:: >>>>> negative side of their personalities. On the other hand, Olga, my
:: >>>>> current working dog, would no more get into trouble in the house
: than
:: >>>>> I would jump off a bridge! But though she's smart and a solid 
steady
:: >>>>> worker, she doesn't have that edge and absolute brilliance Bianca
: has.
:: >>>>> But she is the dog I need for my life as it is now. I work from 
home
:: >>>>> now, and when Bianca was working, she'd have gone crazy with that
: kind
:: >>>>> of schedule.
:: >>>>>
:: >>>>>
:: >>>>>
:: >>>>> -----Original Message-----
:: >>>>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Raven
:: >>>>> Tolliver
:: >>>>> Sent: Monday, September 16, 2013 11:58 AM
:: >>>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
:: >>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Why Labradors?
:: >>>>>
:: >>>>> I meant to put more of a focus on a lab's quirkiness than their
:: >>>>> goofiness. I've definitely trained labradors that didn't goof off
:: >>>>> during the session unless there was a toy involved, of course.
:: >>>>> by work ethic, I guess I'm referring to the dog's concentration on
: and
:: >>>>> sincerity during work. I hear too many stories about labs being
:: >>>>> stubborn in harness about sniffing, scavenging, and snatching up
:: >>>>> people's food, being far too high-strung, getting easily excited 
and
:: >>>>> wild about little things, and having inappropriate house manners
: when
:: >>>>> out of harness. It's very possible that this is the case because
: there
:: >>>>> are more labs in the field than any other breed. Also, I know that
:: >>>>> dogs are creatures of opportunity and it rests more on the handler
: to
:: >>>>> maintain consistent control of their  dog than it rests on the dog
: to
:: >>>>> restrain itself. despite having a lax handler. It may be true as
: well
:: >>>>> that some of these behaviors are prominent because schools are
: giving
:: >>>>> out adolescent dogs, and the inappropriate behaviors probably fade
:: >>>>> with age.
:: >>>>>
:: >>>>>
:: >>>>>
:: >>>>> On 9/16/13, Sherry Gomes <sherriola at gmail.com> wrote:
:: >>>>>> I have to agree. My labs aren't goofy in their work, and I like 
the
:: >>>>>> silly side in their off work hours. My retired Bianca, a black 
lab,
:: >>>>>> I'd
:: >>>>> challenge
:: >>>>>> against any breed with a stronger work ethic. I have pretty
:: >>>>>> specialized needs in my guide. I need a dog that is 100 percent
: easy
:: >>>>>> to manage, but at the same time, the dog has to be smart with 
great
:: >>>>>> initiative. I can fall over a tiny crack in a sidewalk, for
: instance.
:: >>>>>> And I must be a route traveler, because the longer I am on my 
feet,
:: >>>>>> the more pain and time for recovering I might have to have. So, I
:: >>>>>> need my dogs to be smart, to learn what I need to have done, where
: to
:: >>>>>> be cautious, to be able to walk at a slow pace without getting
:: >>>>>> distracted and not to have the sort of initiative
:: >>>>> that
:: >>>>>> makes them want to explore a little. During training, Bianca 
picked
:: >>>>>> up everything I needed. She'd slow or even stop at dips for
: driveways
:: >>>>>> on a sidewalk, or hesitate at the top of a wheel chair ramp as we
:: >>>>>> approached a corner. She instinctively seemed to know what could
: trip
:: >>>>>> me up and she'd look for the smoothest part of the area. She would
:: >>>>>> remember a place we'd been to after one visit. When I worked at
: GDB,
:: >>>>>> I had a nightmarish
:: >>>>> crossing
:: >>>>>> on my way to work, the sort of crossing I dread and avoid at all
:: >>>>>> costs.
:: >>>>>> There was no way to avoid it, and Bianca got me through it
:: >>>>>> confidently, wagging her tail. I heard lots of people say labs and
:: >>>>>> goldens don't have a strong work ethic and I think that's as wrong
: as
:: >>>>>> someone else saying all shepherds are too hyper or can't handle
:: >>>>>> stressful work, or any of the
:: >>>>> other
:: >>>>>> generalizations people make about breeds. There are good dogs and
: not
:: >>>>> great
:: >>>>>> dogs in all breeds, and not all individual dogs make great guides.
:: >>>>>> I've seen guides from breeds I wouldn't have expected that were
:: >>>>>> amazing, and I've seen horrible labs. I've had labs that didn't
: work
:: >>>>>> out who weren't made to be guides. I've only ever worked labs and
:: >>>>>> goldens, and I'd give a lot to have another golden, but the 
reasons
: I
:: >>>>>> say that would probably have my golden from 15 years ago career
:: >>>>>> changed now. She was very much a one-person dog who took a long
: time
:: >>>>>> to turn over to her trainer and then to me and had severe
: separation
:: >>>>>> anxiety. In the world of cookie cutter training and dogs, I don't
:: >>>>>> think they'd give her the time she needed today. But man, was she
:: >>>>>> ever one devoted and bonded dog. She have worked across the fires
: of
:: >>>>>> hell for me if I'd asked her to. And yet, most people think 
goldens
:: >>>>>> are silly. So it all comes down to that I think labs are
: predominant
:: >>>>>> because they adjust well
:: >>>>> to
:: >>>>>> the changes in their lives, they are healthy, intelligent and
:: >>>>>> friendly. A dog that can work and live in most any environment.
:: >>>>>>
:: >>>>>> Sherry
:: >>>>>>
:: >>>>>> -----Original Message-----
:: >>>>>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Tracy
:: >>>>>> Carcione
:: >>>>>> Sent: Monday, September 16, 2013 10:27 AM
:: >>>>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog 
Users
:: >>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Why Labradors?
:: >>>>>>
:: >>>>>> I hear people talk about labrador goofiness, but none of my 5 labs
:: >>>>>> have been what I'd call goofy, certainly not in harness.  Some 
have
:: >>>>>> been quite playful out of harness, but very serious as soon as the
:: >>>> harness went on.
:: >>>>>> And, as for work ethic, they don't have the intensity of a
: shepherd,
:: >>>>>> but they do take their work seriously.
:: >>>>>> I guess I'm not real clear on what you mean by "work ethic".
:: >>>>>> Tracy
:: >>>>>>
:: >>>>>>> Hi,
:: >>>>>>> I never thought about the adjustment to a kennel environment as a
:: >>>>>>> contributing factor toward what breed dominates the field, but it
:: >>>>>>> makes sense. Also, coat and health maintenance seem like sensible
:: >>>>>>> reasons on the surface. Obviously, we want healthy dogs, but
:: >>>>>>> personally, I would look for a more serious work ethic and less
:: >>>>>>> quirkiness and goofiness in a guide dog.
:: >>>>>>> I just thought it would be an interesting question since there 
are
:: >>>>>>> two US guide dog schools that only train German shepherds as 
guide
:: >>>>>>> dogs, and now there is a school in the south that trains several
:: >>>>>>> breeds for guide work, none of which are labradors.
:: >>>>>>>
:: >>>>>>>
:: >>>>>>>
:: >>>>>>> On 9/16/13, Tracy Carcione <carcione at access.net> wrote:
:: >>>>>>>> I think labradors have many excellent guide dog qualities, and
: that
:: >>>>>>>> is why they're so dominant in the field.
:: >>>>>>>> They're intelligent, but don't have to second-guess every single
:: >>>>>>>> thing their partner asks them to do.
:: >>>>>>>> They're adaptable to a wide variety of environments and a wide
:: >>>>>>>> variety of handlers.  Labs can work well with everything from 
the
:: >>>>>>>> busy college student to the elderly person who may not get out
:: >>>>>>>> every single day.
:: >>>>>>>> They have an easy-care coat, which does not go through big
: shedding
:: >>>>>>>> periods, and doesn't tend to get matted.
:: >>>>>>>> They are generally healthy--not particularly prone to allergies,
:: >>>>>>>> digestive complaints, or other medical issues.
:: >>>>>>>> These two things make them easy keepers, even for inexperienced
: dog
:: >>>>>>>> people.
:: >>>>>>>> They tend to be even-tempered, not prone to snappiness or
: timidity.
:: >>>>>>>>  From what I hear, they are less likely to be upset by a kennel
:: >>>>>>>> environment, which is helpful to the big schools.
:: >>>>>>>>
:: >>>>>>>> I've had 6 dogs, and 5 have been labs.  Shepherds are very
:: >>>>>>>> handsome, but the one I had was pretty high-maintenance.  I'd be
:: >>>>>>>> open to a different breed next time, but I won't be the least
: upset
:: >>>>>>>> if I get another lab.
:: >>>>>>>> I
:: >>>>>>>> think they're one of the finest breeds around.
:: >>>>>>>> Tracy
:: >>>>>>>>
:: >>>>>>>>> There are certainly other breeds besides labs that make good
: guide
:: >>>>>>>>> dogs and other types of service dogs, but I have also seen
: certain
:: >>>>>>>>> breeds, such as collies, which, JMHO, should not be service
: dogs.
:: >>>>>>>>> Some breeds are smart, but do not have the want-to-please
:: >>>>>>>>> mentality  found in some of the breeds more commonly used for
:: >>>>>>>>> guide dogs.
:: >>>>>>>>> As for goldens, I think that they may be a little more laid 
back
:: >>>>>>>>> than labs.
:: >>>>>>>>> I do not know if German Shepherds are more sensative to
:: >>>>>>>>> corrections, but I do know that they are more likely to not eat
: or
:: >>>>>>>>> get slightly sick when adjusting to change or in stressful
:: >>>>>>>>> situations, such as traveling.
:: >>>>>>>>> Also,
:: >>>>>>>>> they are more likely to have medical or aggression problems,
: which
:: >>>>>>>>> is partiallywhy, sadly, GDB no longer trains German Shepherds.
:: >>>>>>>>> I have not interacted much with dobermen pinchers, but, from
: what
:: >>>>>>>>> other people have said, I'm not quite sure why they are not 
used
:: >>>>>>>>> more. I guess that, once schools find breeds that work, they 
are
:: >>>>>>>>> less likely to try something new.
:: >>>>>>>>>
:: >>>>>>>>> Nicole
:: >>>>>>>>>
:: >>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
:: >>>>>>>>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of 
Raven
:: >>>>>>>>> Tolliver
:: >>>>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, September 15, 2013 9:22 AM
:: >>>>>>>>> To: nagdu at nfbnet.org
:: >>>>>>>>> Subject: [nagdu] Why Labradors?
:: >>>>>>>>>
:: >>>>>>>>> Hi,
:: >>>>>>>>> I am wondering why the majority of dogs trained in most guide
: dog
:: >>>>>>>>> programs are labrador retrievers. What is it about that breed
: that
:: >>>>>>>>> makes them dominate in the guide dog field?
:: >>>>>>>>> I notice that in other service dog areas, this breed is not 
used
:: >>>>>>>>> as often.
:: >>>>>>>>> And when people train their own guide dogs or have them
: privately
:: >>>>>>>>> trained, it seems that labradors are rarely chosen. What
: advantage
:: >>>>>>>>> do guide dog programs feel labradors have over other breeds 
like
:: >>>>>>>>> the golden retriever, German shepherd, doberman pinscher, or
: even
:: >>>>>>>>> the Australian shepherd.
:: >>>>>>>>> When I asked a GEB instructor why they didn't pass more goldens
:: >>>>>>>>> through, they said it was because a lot of goldens (their
: goldens
:: >>>>>>>>> anyway), didn't have the confidence it took to be a guide dog.
:: >>>>>>>>> They were not confident enough to make independent or executive
:: >>>>>>>>> decisions.
:: >>>>>>>>> Also, I have heard that German shepherds are more sensitive to
:: >>>>>>>>> corrections, and also require more of a routine. They do not
: adapt
:: >>>>>>>>> to new environments or change as well as other breeds.
:: >>>>>>>>> Do you guys find this to be true? What do you think?
:: >>>>>>>>> Thanks.
:: >>>>>>>>>
:: >>>>>>>>> --
:: >>>>>>>>> Raven
:: >>>>>>>>>
:: >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
:: >>>>>>>>> nagdu mailing list
:: >>>>>>>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
:: >>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
:: >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
: info
:: >>>>>>>>> for
:: >>>>>>>>> nagdu:
:: >>>>>>>>>
:: >>>>>>
:: >>>>>
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:: >>>>> ble.co
:: >>>>>>>>> m
:: >>>>>>>>>
:: >>>>>>>>>
:: >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
:: >>>>>>>>> nagdu mailing list
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:: >>>>> et
:: >>>>>>>>>
:: >>>>>>>>
:: >>>>>>>>
:: >>>>>>>>
:: >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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:: >>>>>>>>
:: >>>>>>>
:: >>>>>>>
:: >>>>>>> --
:: >>>>>>> Raven
:: >>>>>>>
:: >>>>>>> _______________________________________________
:: >>>>>>> nagdu mailing list
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:: >>>>>>>
:: >>>>>>
:: >>>>>>
:: >>>>>>
:: >>>>>> _______________________________________________
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:: >>>>>> _______________________________________________
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:: >>>>>
:: >>>>>
:: >>>>> --
:: >>>>> Raven
:: >>>>>
:: >>>>> _______________________________________________
:: >>>>> nagdu mailing list
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: for
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:: >>>>> om
:: >>>>>
:: >>>>>
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:: >>>>>
:: >>>>
:: >>>> _______________________________________________
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:: >>>
:: >>>
:: >>> --
:: >>> Raven
:: >>>
:: >>> _______________________________________________
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:: >>
:: >>
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:: >
:: >
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