[nagdu] Why Labradors?

Tue Sep 17 19:25:25 UTC 2013

hi eve I haven't figured out how to curb licking in my sweet golden. 
Other than that I love him to death.
On 9/17/2013 11:25 AM, I. C. Bray wrote:
> Tami,
>
> I always look forward to your posts!!
>
> I don't like hair either, but I like poodles even less... No offense!!
> Smart dog, yes... yes... I know!  Too smart if you ask me.  There is one
> around here who is NOT well behaved and his Trainer won't make it behave.
>
> I like all the Yellow Labs I've met.
> I don't particularly care for goldens ... again hair, but also the
> licking... and licking... and licking.. and licking... and licking... oh,
> did I mention the licking?
>
> Does anyone have any advice to curtail that behavior?
>
> Ian
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Tami Jarvis" <tami at poodlemutt.com>
> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, September 17, 2013 12:12 PM
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Why Labradors?
>
>
> : Raven,
> :
> : For some reason, I've preferred "something other than lab" as a guide.
> : Don't know why, since I like labs. I guess there are other breeds I like
> : better. But I've come to the conclusion that when/if I go through a
> : program, I will no doubt be thrilled with a lab if that's what they
> : match me with.
> :
> : It seems like another plus with labs in the business sense is that there
> : is a fair amount of variety in their temperaments, so more available
> : matches per litter. There are speedy, energetic labs and mellow,
> : laid-back labs. So apparently, they are less one-size-fits-all.
> :
> : Then there are poodles... /lol/ I had viewed labs as super hyper and
> : goofy and was shocked to learn they were being used as guides. Then I
> : observed a couple in harness and realized they were great. It does make
> : sense, since they are hunting -- working -- dogs from before they became
> : the designated pet breed. Then I got a poodle, so I now see labs as
> : mellow and serious, even the pet lab pups doing their labby thing at hte
> : park. Lab owners see me as just plain nuts when I mention it must be
> : nice to have such a placid puppy... Until I explain that I have a
> : poodle. Oh. /lol/
> :
> : I've known some hyper goofy pet goldens, too, but they seem to make
> : really great guides. For now, I'm still debating the poodle vs. dobie
> : choice for my next, and I still have my lifelong shepherd yen. Except
> : for the shedding there. Poodle has me and my spouse spoiled. So it's
> : down to poodle vs. dobie.
> :
> : Tami
> :
> :
> : On 09/17/2013 07:49 AM, Raven Tolliver wrote:
> : > Hi Tracy,
> : > That's promising. I suppose it wouldn't kill to try out a lab, several
> : > years from now, when I'm applying for the next dog, if that's what I
> : > choose to do. I mean, I would still shoot for a golden, but if I ended
> : > up with a well-behaved, low energy, calm, gentle labrador, I would
> : > stick with it to really experience the difference between the two
> : > breeds.
> : >
> : > On 9/17/13, Tracy Carcione <carcione at access.net> wrote:
> : >> Hi Raven.  You'd need a lab like my Benny, then.  He's extremely quiet.
> I
> : >> say he has a stuffed animal switch.  He lies down, flips the switch,
> and
> : >> turns himself into a stuffed animal.  He only dances around for a few
> : >> minutes a day.  I've never met another dog like him.
> : >> Tracy
> : >>
> : >>
> : >> ----- Original Message -----
> : >> From: "Raven Tolliver" <ravend729 at gmail.com>
> : >> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
> : >> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> : >> Sent: Monday, September 16, 2013 11:18 PM
> : >> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Why Labradors?
> : >>
> : >>
> : >>> Yeah, I think the puppy-like behavior is what bothers me. If I wanted
> : >>> a puppy, I would get one. That insane behavior and getting into things
> : >>> is exactly what I'm referring to when I say they are high-strung,
> : >>> goofy,and quirky. The running in circles, barking or growling--that's
> : >>> a little nuts. Going after everything on the floor, or jumping up to
> : >>> grab things that are on counters or high up--that's a nuisance.
> : >>> I just don't think a labrador would ever be for me. I prefer a more
> : >>> laid-back, mature, and well-mannered golden. I like a dog that's
> : >>> perfectly fine with working all day from 9 to 9, but also okay with
> : >>> sitting around the apartment all day with a couple play sessions
> : >>> thrown in. I just don't need a dog with high energy requirements.
> : >>> There's other reasons why I wouldn't get a lab, but the ones above are
> : >>> big contributing factors.
> : >>>
> : >>>
> : >>> On 9/16/13, Darla Rogers <djrogers0628 at gmail.com> wrote:
> : >>>> Hi Debbie,
> : >>>> Leone sounds really cute, though I haven't always experienced, with
> : >>>> my labs, the puppyish behavior until 5.  Huck still has some, but he
> : >>>> never
> : >>>> bothers anything in the house though he is much happier working and
> : >>>> going
> : >>>> places.
> : >>>> The puppy part, if it isn't destructive, is one of the things I love
> : >>>> about labs; they enjoy life!!!!  They usually enjoy their work, too,
> and
> : >>>> they are seldom in a bad mood.
> : >>>> Darla & HANDSOME Huck
> : >>>>
> : >>>>
> : >>>> -----Original Message-----
> : >>>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Debbie
> Cole
> : >>>> Sent: Monday, September 16, 2013 5:43 PM
> : >>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> : >>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Why Labradors?
> : >>>>
> : >>>> Labradores... they always have the minds and hearts of a puppy.  they
> : >>>> just
> : >>>> never seem to grow up.  We need to baby proof our house.  No socks or
> : >>>> objects left where she can get to them.  Coffee Tables must be
> cleaned.
> : >>>> Remote controls up high.
> : >>>>
> : >>>> My Leone she gets this playful behavior mostly in the evenings after
> her
> : >>>> 2nd
> : >>>> to last walk.  (we're in an apartment with no yard) If i'm at the
> : >>>> computer
> : >>>> she will look at me from 5 feet away then start barking and running
> : >>>> around
> : >>>> the living room.  this means let's play.  she's 5.
> : >>>> Still a puppy.  So I get her bone or a tug toy and i play tug with
> her
> : >>>> or
> : >>>> throw her kongs.  Until she's tired.
> : >>>>
> : >>>> Once a Lab always a puppy.
> : >>>>
> : >>>> Debbie & Leone
> : >>>>
> : >>>> On 9/16/13, Sherry Gomes <sherriola at gmail.com> wrote:
> : >>>>> My Bianca has had horrible house behavior, but I attribute that to
> her
> : >>>>> intelligence. Her mind was always looking for something to do. I
> : >>>>> learned dog proofing to a level I'd never needed before. Now she's
> : >>>>> nearly thirteen, she can't physically get into the mischief she used
> : >>>>> to do. But since nobody, dog or human is perfect, I accept the
> : >>>>> negative side of their personalities. On the other hand, Olga, my
> : >>>>> current working dog, would no more get into trouble in the house
> than
> : >>>>> I would jump off a bridge! But though she's smart and a solid steady
> : >>>>> worker, she doesn't have that edge and absolute brilliance Bianca
> has.
> : >>>>> But she is the dog I need for my life as it is now. I work from home
> : >>>>> now, and when Bianca was working, she'd have gone crazy with that
> kind
> : >>>>> of schedule.
> : >>>>>
> : >>>>>
> : >>>>>
> : >>>>> -----Original Message-----
> : >>>>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Raven
> : >>>>> Tolliver
> : >>>>> Sent: Monday, September 16, 2013 11:58 AM
> : >>>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> : >>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Why Labradors?
> : >>>>>
> : >>>>> I meant to put more of a focus on a lab's quirkiness than their
> : >>>>> goofiness. I've definitely trained labradors that didn't goof off
> : >>>>> during the session unless there was a toy involved, of course.
> : >>>>> by work ethic, I guess I'm referring to the dog's concentration on
> and
> : >>>>> sincerity during work. I hear too many stories about labs being
> : >>>>> stubborn in harness about sniffing, scavenging, and snatching up
> : >>>>> people's food, being far too high-strung, getting easily excited and
> : >>>>> wild about little things, and having inappropriate house manners
> when
> : >>>>> out of harness. It's very possible that this is the case because
> there
> : >>>>> are more labs in the field than any other breed. Also, I know that
> : >>>>> dogs are creatures of opportunity and it rests more on the handler
> to
> : >>>>> maintain consistent control of their  dog than it rests on the dog
> to
> : >>>>> restrain itself. despite having a lax handler. It may be true as
> well
> : >>>>> that some of these behaviors are prominent because schools are
> giving
> : >>>>> out adolescent dogs, and the inappropriate behaviors probably fade
> : >>>>> with age.
> : >>>>>
> : >>>>>
> : >>>>>
> : >>>>> On 9/16/13, Sherry Gomes <sherriola at gmail.com> wrote:
> : >>>>>> I have to agree. My labs aren't goofy in their work, and I like the
> : >>>>>> silly side in their off work hours. My retired Bianca, a black lab,
> : >>>>>> I'd
> : >>>>> challenge
> : >>>>>> against any breed with a stronger work ethic. I have pretty
> : >>>>>> specialized needs in my guide. I need a dog that is 100 percent
> easy
> : >>>>>> to manage, but at the same time, the dog has to be smart with great
> : >>>>>> initiative. I can fall over a tiny crack in a sidewalk, for
> instance.
> : >>>>>> And I must be a route traveler, because the longer I am on my feet,
> : >>>>>> the more pain and time for recovering I might have to have. So, I
> : >>>>>> need my dogs to be smart, to learn what I need to have done, where
> to
> : >>>>>> be cautious, to be able to walk at a slow pace without getting
> : >>>>>> distracted and not to have the sort of initiative
> : >>>>> that
> : >>>>>> makes them want to explore a little. During training, Bianca picked
> : >>>>>> up everything I needed. She'd slow or even stop at dips for
> driveways
> : >>>>>> on a sidewalk, or hesitate at the top of a wheel chair ramp as we
> : >>>>>> approached a corner. She instinctively seemed to know what could
> trip
> : >>>>>> me up and she'd look for the smoothest part of the area. She would
> : >>>>>> remember a place we'd been to after one visit. When I worked at
> GDB,
> : >>>>>> I had a nightmarish
> : >>>>> crossing
> : >>>>>> on my way to work, the sort of crossing I dread and avoid at all
> : >>>>>> costs.
> : >>>>>> There was no way to avoid it, and Bianca got me through it
> : >>>>>> confidently, wagging her tail. I heard lots of people say labs and
> : >>>>>> goldens don't have a strong work ethic and I think that's as wrong
> as
> : >>>>>> someone else saying all shepherds are too hyper or can't handle
> : >>>>>> stressful work, or any of the
> : >>>>> other
> : >>>>>> generalizations people make about breeds. There are good dogs and
> not
> : >>>>> great
> : >>>>>> dogs in all breeds, and not all individual dogs make great guides.
> : >>>>>> I've seen guides from breeds I wouldn't have expected that were
> : >>>>>> amazing, and I've seen horrible labs. I've had labs that didn't
> work
> : >>>>>> out who weren't made to be guides. I've only ever worked labs and
> : >>>>>> goldens, and I'd give a lot to have another golden, but the reasons
> I
> : >>>>>> say that would probably have my golden from 15 years ago career
> : >>>>>> changed now. She was very much a one-person dog who took a long
> time
> : >>>>>> to turn over to her trainer and then to me and had severe
> separation
> : >>>>>> anxiety. In the world of cookie cutter training and dogs, I don't
> : >>>>>> think they'd give her the time she needed today. But man, was she
> : >>>>>> ever one devoted and bonded dog. She have worked across the fires
> of
> : >>>>>> hell for me if I'd asked her to. And yet, most people think goldens
> : >>>>>> are silly. So it all comes down to that I think labs are
> predominant
> : >>>>>> because they adjust well
> : >>>>> to
> : >>>>>> the changes in their lives, they are healthy, intelligent and
> : >>>>>> friendly. A dog that can work and live in most any environment.
> : >>>>>>
> : >>>>>> Sherry
> : >>>>>>
> : >>>>>> -----Original Message-----
> : >>>>>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Tracy
> : >>>>>> Carcione
> : >>>>>> Sent: Monday, September 16, 2013 10:27 AM
> : >>>>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> : >>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Why Labradors?
> : >>>>>>
> : >>>>>> I hear people talk about labrador goofiness, but none of my 5 labs
> : >>>>>> have been what I'd call goofy, certainly not in harness.  Some have
> : >>>>>> been quite playful out of harness, but very serious as soon as the
> : >>>> harness went on.
> : >>>>>> And, as for work ethic, they don't have the intensity of a
> shepherd,
> : >>>>>> but they do take their work seriously.
> : >>>>>> I guess I'm not real clear on what you mean by "work ethic".
> : >>>>>> Tracy
> : >>>>>>
> : >>>>>>> Hi,
> : >>>>>>> I never thought about the adjustment to a kennel environment as a
> : >>>>>>> contributing factor toward what breed dominates the field, but it
> : >>>>>>> makes sense. Also, coat and health maintenance seem like sensible
> : >>>>>>> reasons on the surface. Obviously, we want healthy dogs, but
> : >>>>>>> personally, I would look for a more serious work ethic and less
> : >>>>>>> quirkiness and goofiness in a guide dog.
> : >>>>>>> I just thought it would be an interesting question since there are
> : >>>>>>> two US guide dog schools that only train German shepherds as guide
> : >>>>>>> dogs, and now there is a school in the south that trains several
> : >>>>>>> breeds for guide work, none of which are labradors.
> : >>>>>>>
> : >>>>>>>
> : >>>>>>>
> : >>>>>>> On 9/16/13, Tracy Carcione <carcione at access.net> wrote:
> : >>>>>>>> I think labradors have many excellent guide dog qualities, and
> that
> : >>>>>>>> is why they're so dominant in the field.
> : >>>>>>>> They're intelligent, but don't have to second-guess every single
> : >>>>>>>> thing their partner asks them to do.
> : >>>>>>>> They're adaptable to a wide variety of environments and a wide
> : >>>>>>>> variety of handlers.  Labs can work well with everything from the
> : >>>>>>>> busy college student to the elderly person who may not get out
> : >>>>>>>> every single day.
> : >>>>>>>> They have an easy-care coat, which does not go through big
> shedding
> : >>>>>>>> periods, and doesn't tend to get matted.
> : >>>>>>>> They are generally healthy--not particularly prone to allergies,
> : >>>>>>>> digestive complaints, or other medical issues.
> : >>>>>>>> These two things make them easy keepers, even for inexperienced
> dog
> : >>>>>>>> people.
> : >>>>>>>> They tend to be even-tempered, not prone to snappiness or
> timidity.
> : >>>>>>>>  From what I hear, they are less likely to be upset by a kennel
> : >>>>>>>> environment, which is helpful to the big schools.
> : >>>>>>>>
> : >>>>>>>> I've had 6 dogs, and 5 have been labs.  Shepherds are very
> : >>>>>>>> handsome, but the one I had was pretty high-maintenance.  I'd be
> : >>>>>>>> open to a different breed next time, but I won't be the least
> upset
> : >>>>>>>> if I get another lab.
> : >>>>>>>> I
> : >>>>>>>> think they're one of the finest breeds around.
> : >>>>>>>> Tracy
> : >>>>>>>>
> : >>>>>>>>> There are certainly other breeds besides labs that make good
> guide
> : >>>>>>>>> dogs and other types of service dogs, but I have also seen
> certain
> : >>>>>>>>> breeds, such as collies, which, JMHO, should not be service
> dogs.
> : >>>>>>>>> Some breeds are smart, but do not have the want-to-please
> : >>>>>>>>> mentality  found in some of the breeds more commonly used for
> : >>>>>>>>> guide dogs.
> : >>>>>>>>> As for goldens, I think that they may be a little more laid back
> : >>>>>>>>> than labs.
> : >>>>>>>>> I do not know if German Shepherds are more sensative to
> : >>>>>>>>> corrections, but I do know that they are more likely to not eat
> or
> : >>>>>>>>> get slightly sick when adjusting to change or in stressful
> : >>>>>>>>> situations, such as traveling.
> : >>>>>>>>> Also,
> : >>>>>>>>> they are more likely to have medical or aggression problems,
> which
> : >>>>>>>>> is partiallywhy, sadly, GDB no longer trains German Shepherds.
> : >>>>>>>>> I have not interacted much with dobermen pinchers, but, from
> what
> : >>>>>>>>> other people have said, I'm not quite sure why they are not used
> : >>>>>>>>> more. I guess that, once schools find breeds that work, they are
> : >>>>>>>>> less likely to try something new.
> : >>>>>>>>>
> : >>>>>>>>> Nicole
> : >>>>>>>>>
> : >>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
> : >>>>>>>>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Raven
> : >>>>>>>>> Tolliver
> : >>>>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, September 15, 2013 9:22 AM
> : >>>>>>>>> To: nagdu at nfbnet.org
> : >>>>>>>>> Subject: [nagdu] Why Labradors?
> : >>>>>>>>>
> : >>>>>>>>> Hi,
> : >>>>>>>>> I am wondering why the majority of dogs trained in most guide
> dog
> : >>>>>>>>> programs are labrador retrievers. What is it about that breed
> that
> : >>>>>>>>> makes them dominate in the guide dog field?
> : >>>>>>>>> I notice that in other service dog areas, this breed is not used
> : >>>>>>>>> as often.
> : >>>>>>>>> And when people train their own guide dogs or have them
> privately
> : >>>>>>>>> trained, it seems that labradors are rarely chosen. What
> advantage
> : >>>>>>>>> do guide dog programs feel labradors have over other breeds like
> : >>>>>>>>> the golden retriever, German shepherd, doberman pinscher, or
> even
> : >>>>>>>>> the Australian shepherd.
> : >>>>>>>>> When I asked a GEB instructor why they didn't pass more goldens
> : >>>>>>>>> through, they said it was because a lot of goldens (their
> goldens
> : >>>>>>>>> anyway), didn't have the confidence it took to be a guide dog.
> : >>>>>>>>> They were not confident enough to make independent or executive
> : >>>>>>>>> decisions.
> : >>>>>>>>> Also, I have heard that German shepherds are more sensitive to
> : >>>>>>>>> corrections, and also require more of a routine. They do not
> adapt
> : >>>>>>>>> to new environments or change as well as other breeds.
> : >>>>>>>>> Do you guys find this to be true? What do you think?
> : >>>>>>>>> Thanks.
> : >>>>>>>>>
> : >>>>>>>>> --
> : >>>>>>>>> Raven
> : >>>>>>>>>
> : >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
> : >>>>>>>>> nagdu mailing list
> : >>>>>>>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
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> : >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
> info
> : >>>>>>>>> for
> : >>>>>>>>> nagdu:
> : >>>>>>>>>
> : >>>>>>
> : >>>>>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40waveca
> : >>>>> ble.co
> : >>>>>>>>> m
> : >>>>>>>>>
> : >>>>>>>>>
> : >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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> : >>>>> et
> : >>>>>>>>>
> : >>>>>>>>
> : >>>>>>>>
> : >>>>>>>>
> : >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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> : >>>>>>>> l.com
> : >>>>>>>>
> : >>>>>>>
> : >>>>>>>
> : >>>>>>> --
> : >>>>>>> Raven
> : >>>>>>>
> : >>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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> : >>>>>>>
> : >>>>>>
> : >>>>>>
> : >>>>>>
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> : >>>>>>
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> : >>>>>
> : >>>>>
> : >>>>> --
> : >>>>> Raven
> : >>>>>
> : >>>>> _______________________________________________
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> : >>>>> nagdu:
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> : >>>>> om
> : >>>>>
> : >>>>>
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> : >>>>>
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> : >>>>> ail.com
> : >>>>>
> : >>>>
> : >>>> _______________________________________________
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> : >>>>
> : >>>
> : >>>
> : >>> --
> : >>> Raven
> : >>>
> : >>> _______________________________________________
> : >>> nagdu mailing list
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> : >>> nagdu:
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> : >>>
> : >>
> : >>
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> : >>
> : >
> : >
> :
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