[nagdu] Why Labradors?

Darla Rogers djrogers0628 at gmail.com
Fri Sep 20 03:54:58 UTC 2013


A Black and tan lab?  Not in this universe. <giggle c>
Darla


-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of I. C. Bray
Sent: Tuesday, September 17, 2013 5:30 AM
To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Why Labradors?

To interject an opinion, I have met a number of Labs of late, and I tend to
find that Blacks are more puppyish and social.  I also find that Yellows are
more neurotic, but bond better to their handler.  If you want the best of
both worlds, then a "Black & Tan" is the way to go.

I personally want my upcoming furry, four footed eyes to be a yellow.

Ian



----- Original Message -----
From: "Raven Tolliver" <ravend729 at gmail.com>
To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users" 
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Tuesday, September 17, 2013 6:19 AM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Why Labradors?


: Hi Minh,
: I have met a number of labradors and a number of goldens. I make my
: generalizations because of my experiences. Generally, adult goldens
: are more laid-back than adult labradors in my experience. I understand
: that there are laid-back labs. My dog's kennel mate was a very
: laid-back black labrador. And I have assisted in the training of some
: down-to-earth labradors. Too, I have seen energetic, spunky goldens,
: but they were adolescent service dogs in training, or adult goldens
: who were definitely not the service dog type.
: I am not saying that labradors are bad guide dogs, but that they tend
: to have qualities that I personally would not desire from a working
: dog. Also, I was not generalizing goldens in my previous post. Rather,
: I was specifying the type of golden that I would like to work with.
: Nicole, the guide dog school I am referring to, Gallant Hearts Guide
: Dog Center, trains German shepherds, dobermans, boxers, and golden
: retrievers. This is a fairly young school with only a few graduates.
: But there are many things I like about this program, and I hope that
: it lasts just as long as the other schools out there.
: Concerning house manners, I think sometimes, dogs' manners go downhill
: because of the kennel environment. They stay in those kennels for at
: least four months, so there is not much of an opportunity to maintain
: house manners. Some dogs come out of the kennels scavenging, eating
: their feces, frequently and inappropriately vocalizing, and the list
: goes on. If it were possible for the dogs to remain in homes during
: formal guide training, like the dogs over in Sweden, I truly believe
: it would eliminate or lower the turn out of dogs with some common
: behavior issues. Of course, the guide dog school of Sweden is very
: small, so they can afford to have the guides in training live with the
: different employees.
:
:
:
: On 9/17/13, minh ha <minh.ha927 at gmail.com> wrote:
: > Raven,
: >
: > I think you're overgeneralizing all labs, and goldens for that matter.
: > I've met insane labs and then I've met crazy goldens. Just because one
: > is laidback and mature doesn't mean all of them are. I attribute
: > negative behaviors more to the handlers than the dogs. Granted, there
: > are dogs that are going to act out just because it's their
: > personality, but it's the responsibility of the handlers to curb these
: > behaviors as much as possible. I also think that with the school dogs,
: > a lot of the house behaviors are taught by the puppy raisers and
: > sometimes, these raisers don't instill the proper behaviors into the
: > dogs at a young age.
: >
: > Minh
: >
: > On 9/16/13, Raven Tolliver <ravend729 at gmail.com> wrote:
: >> Yeah, I think the puppy-like behavior is what bothers me. If I wanted
: >> a puppy, I would get one. That insane behavior and getting into things
: >> is exactly what I'm referring to when I say they are high-strung,
: >> goofy,and quirky. The running in circles, barking or growling--that's
: >> a little nuts. Going after everything on the floor, or jumping up to
: >> grab things that are on counters or high up--that's a nuisance.
: >> I just don't think a labrador would ever be for me. I prefer a more
: >> laid-back, mature, and well-mannered golden. I like a dog that's
: >> perfectly fine with working all day from 9 to 9, but also okay with
: >> sitting around the apartment all day with a couple play sessions
: >> thrown in. I just don't need a dog with high energy requirements.
: >> There's other reasons why I wouldn't get a lab, but the ones above are
: >> big contributing factors.
: >>
: >>
: >> On 9/16/13, Darla Rogers <djrogers0628 at gmail.com> wrote:
: >>> Hi Debbie,
: >>> Leone sounds really cute, though I haven't always experienced, with
: >>> my labs, the puppyish behavior until 5.  Huck still has some, but he
: >>> never
: >>> bothers anything in the house though he is much happier working and
: >>> going
: >>> places.
: >>> The puppy part, if it isn't destructive, is one of the things I love
: >>> about labs; they enjoy life!!!!  They usually enjoy their work, too, 
and
: >>> they are seldom in a bad mood.
: >>> Darla & HANDSOME Huck
: >>>
: >>>
: >>> -----Original Message-----
: >>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Debbie Cole
: >>> Sent: Monday, September 16, 2013 5:43 PM
: >>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
: >>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Why Labradors?
: >>>
: >>> Labradores... they always have the minds and hearts of a puppy.  they
: >>> just
: >>> never seem to grow up.  We need to baby proof our house.  No socks or
: >>> objects left where she can get to them.  Coffee Tables must be 
cleaned.
: >>> Remote controls up high.
: >>>
: >>> My Leone she gets this playful behavior mostly in the evenings after 
her
: >>> 2nd
: >>> to last walk.  (we're in an apartment with no yard) If i'm at the
: >>> computer
: >>> she will look at me from 5 feet away then start barking and running
: >>> around
: >>> the living room.  this means let's play.  she's 5.
: >>> Still a puppy.  So I get her bone or a tug toy and i play tug with her
: >>> or
: >>> throw her kongs.  Until she's tired.
: >>>
: >>> Once a Lab always a puppy.
: >>>
: >>> Debbie & Leone
: >>>
: >>> On 9/16/13, Sherry Gomes <sherriola at gmail.com> wrote:
: >>>> My Bianca has had horrible house behavior, but I attribute that to 
her
: >>>> intelligence. Her mind was always looking for something to do. I
: >>>> learned dog proofing to a level I'd never needed before. Now she's
: >>>> nearly thirteen, she can't physically get into the mischief she used
: >>>> to do. But since nobody, dog or human is perfect, I accept the
: >>>> negative side of their personalities. On the other hand, Olga, my
: >>>> current working dog, would no more get into trouble in the house than
: >>>> I would jump off a bridge! But though she's smart and a solid steady
: >>>> worker, she doesn't have that edge and absolute brilliance Bianca 
has.
: >>>> But she is the dog I need for my life as it is now. I work from home
: >>>> now, and when Bianca was working, she'd have gone crazy with that 
kind
: >>>> of schedule.
: >>>>
: >>>>
: >>>>
: >>>> -----Original Message-----
: >>>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Raven
: >>>> Tolliver
: >>>> Sent: Monday, September 16, 2013 11:58 AM
: >>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
: >>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Why Labradors?
: >>>>
: >>>> I meant to put more of a focus on a lab's quirkiness than their
: >>>> goofiness. I've definitely trained labradors that didn't goof off
: >>>> during the session unless there was a toy involved, of course.
: >>>> by work ethic, I guess I'm referring to the dog's concentration on 
and
: >>>> sincerity during work. I hear too many stories about labs being
: >>>> stubborn in harness about sniffing, scavenging, and snatching up
: >>>> people's food, being far too high-strung, getting easily excited and
: >>>> wild about little things, and having inappropriate house manners when
: >>>> out of harness. It's very possible that this is the case because 
there
: >>>> are more labs in the field than any other breed. Also, I know that
: >>>> dogs are creatures of opportunity and it rests more on the handler to
: >>>> maintain consistent control of their  dog than it rests on the dog to
: >>>> restrain itself. despite having a lax handler. It may be true as well
: >>>> that some of these behaviors are prominent because schools are giving
: >>>> out adolescent dogs, and the inappropriate behaviors probably fade
: >>>> with age.
: >>>>
: >>>>
: >>>>
: >>>> On 9/16/13, Sherry Gomes <sherriola at gmail.com> wrote:
: >>>>> I have to agree. My labs aren't goofy in their work, and I like the
: >>>>> silly side in their off work hours. My retired Bianca, a black lab,
: >>>>> I'd
: >>>> challenge
: >>>>> against any breed with a stronger work ethic. I have pretty
: >>>>> specialized needs in my guide. I need a dog that is 100 percent easy
: >>>>> to manage, but at the same time, the dog has to be smart with great
: >>>>> initiative. I can fall over a tiny crack in a sidewalk, for 
instance.
: >>>>> And I must be a route traveler, because the longer I am on my feet,
: >>>>> the more pain and time for recovering I might have to have. So, I
: >>>>> need my dogs to be smart, to learn what I need to have done, where 
to
: >>>>> be cautious, to be able to walk at a slow pace without getting
: >>>>> distracted and not to have the sort of initiative
: >>>> that
: >>>>> makes them want to explore a little. During training, Bianca picked
: >>>>> up everything I needed. She'd slow or even stop at dips for 
driveways
: >>>>> on a sidewalk, or hesitate at the top of a wheel chair ramp as we
: >>>>> approached a corner. She instinctively seemed to know what could 
trip
: >>>>> me up and she'd look for the smoothest part of the area. She would
: >>>>> remember a place we'd been to after one visit. When I worked at GDB,
: >>>>> I had a nightmarish
: >>>> crossing
: >>>>> on my way to work, the sort of crossing I dread and avoid at all
: >>>>> costs.
: >>>>> There was no way to avoid it, and Bianca got me through it
: >>>>> confidently, wagging her tail. I heard lots of people say labs and
: >>>>> goldens don't have a strong work ethic and I think that's as wrong 
as
: >>>>> someone else saying all shepherds are too hyper or can't handle
: >>>>> stressful work, or any of the
: >>>> other
: >>>>> generalizations people make about breeds. There are good dogs and 
not
: >>>> great
: >>>>> dogs in all breeds, and not all individual dogs make great guides.
: >>>>> I've seen guides from breeds I wouldn't have expected that were
: >>>>> amazing, and I've seen horrible labs. I've had labs that didn't work
: >>>>> out who weren't made to be guides. I've only ever worked labs and
: >>>>> goldens, and I'd give a lot to have another golden, but the reasons 
I
: >>>>> say that would probably have my golden from 15 years ago career
: >>>>> changed now. She was very much a one-person dog who took a long time
: >>>>> to turn over to her trainer and then to me and had severe separation
: >>>>> anxiety. In the world of cookie cutter training and dogs, I don't
: >>>>> think they'd give her the time she needed today. But man, was she
: >>>>> ever one devoted and bonded dog. She have worked across the fires of
: >>>>> hell for me if I'd asked her to. And yet, most people think goldens
: >>>>> are silly. So it all comes down to that I think labs are predominant
: >>>>> because they adjust well
: >>>> to
: >>>>> the changes in their lives, they are healthy, intelligent and
: >>>>> friendly. A dog that can work and live in most any environment.
: >>>>>
: >>>>> Sherry
: >>>>>
: >>>>> -----Original Message-----
: >>>>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Tracy
: >>>>> Carcione
: >>>>> Sent: Monday, September 16, 2013 10:27 AM
: >>>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
: >>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Why Labradors?
: >>>>>
: >>>>> I hear people talk about labrador goofiness, but none of my 5 labs
: >>>>> have been what I'd call goofy, certainly not in harness.  Some have
: >>>>> been quite playful out of harness, but very serious as soon as the
: >>> harness went on.
: >>>>> And, as for work ethic, they don't have the intensity of a shepherd,
: >>>>> but they do take their work seriously.
: >>>>> I guess I'm not real clear on what you mean by "work ethic".
: >>>>> Tracy
: >>>>>
: >>>>>> Hi,
: >>>>>> I never thought about the adjustment to a kennel environment as a
: >>>>>> contributing factor toward what breed dominates the field, but it
: >>>>>> makes sense. Also, coat and health maintenance seem like sensible
: >>>>>> reasons on the surface. Obviously, we want healthy dogs, but
: >>>>>> personally, I would look for a more serious work ethic and less
: >>>>>> quirkiness and goofiness in a guide dog.
: >>>>>> I just thought it would be an interesting question since there are
: >>>>>> two US guide dog schools that only train German shepherds as guide
: >>>>>> dogs, and now there is a school in the south that trains several
: >>>>>> breeds for guide work, none of which are labradors.
: >>>>>>
: >>>>>>
: >>>>>>
: >>>>>> On 9/16/13, Tracy Carcione <carcione at access.net> wrote:
: >>>>>>> I think labradors have many excellent guide dog qualities, and 
that
: >>>>>>> is why they're so dominant in the field.
: >>>>>>> They're intelligent, but don't have to second-guess every single
: >>>>>>> thing their partner asks them to do.
: >>>>>>> They're adaptable to a wide variety of environments and a wide
: >>>>>>> variety of handlers.  Labs can work well with everything from the
: >>>>>>> busy college student to the elderly person who may not get out
: >>>>>>> every single day.
: >>>>>>> They have an easy-care coat, which does not go through big 
shedding
: >>>>>>> periods, and doesn't tend to get matted.
: >>>>>>> They are generally healthy--not particularly prone to allergies,
: >>>>>>> digestive complaints, or other medical issues.
: >>>>>>> These two things make them easy keepers, even for inexperienced 
dog
: >>>>>>> people.
: >>>>>>> They tend to be even-tempered, not prone to snappiness or 
timidity.
: >>>>>>> From what I hear, they are less likely to be upset by a kennel
: >>>>>>> environment, which is helpful to the big schools.
: >>>>>>>
: >>>>>>> I've had 6 dogs, and 5 have been labs.  Shepherds are very
: >>>>>>> handsome, but the one I had was pretty high-maintenance.  I'd be
: >>>>>>> open to a different breed next time, but I won't be the least 
upset
: >>>>>>> if I get another lab.
: >>>>>>> I
: >>>>>>> think they're one of the finest breeds around.
: >>>>>>> Tracy
: >>>>>>>
: >>>>>>>> There are certainly other breeds besides labs that make good 
guide
: >>>>>>>> dogs and other types of service dogs, but I have also seen 
certain
: >>>>>>>> breeds, such as collies, which, JMHO, should not be service dogs.
: >>>>>>>> Some breeds are smart, but do not have the want-to-please
: >>>>>>>> mentality  found in some of the breeds more commonly used for
: >>>>>>>> guide dogs.
: >>>>>>>> As for goldens, I think that they may be a little more laid back
: >>>>>>>> than labs.
: >>>>>>>> I do not know if German Shepherds are more sensative to
: >>>>>>>> corrections, but I do know that they are more likely to not eat 
or
: >>>>>>>> get slightly sick when adjusting to change or in stressful
: >>>>>>>> situations, such as traveling.
: >>>>>>>> Also,
: >>>>>>>> they are more likely to have medical or aggression problems, 
which
: >>>>>>>> is partiallywhy, sadly, GDB no longer trains German Shepherds.
: >>>>>>>> I have not interacted much with dobermen pinchers, but, from what
: >>>>>>>> other people have said, I'm not quite sure why they are not used
: >>>>>>>> more. I guess that, once schools find breeds that work, they are
: >>>>>>>> less likely to try something new.
: >>>>>>>>
: >>>>>>>> Nicole
: >>>>>>>>
: >>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
: >>>>>>>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Raven
: >>>>>>>> Tolliver
: >>>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, September 15, 2013 9:22 AM
: >>>>>>>> To: nagdu at nfbnet.org
: >>>>>>>> Subject: [nagdu] Why Labradors?
: >>>>>>>>
: >>>>>>>> Hi,
: >>>>>>>> I am wondering why the majority of dogs trained in most guide dog
: >>>>>>>> programs are labrador retrievers. What is it about that breed 
that
: >>>>>>>> makes them dominate in the guide dog field?
: >>>>>>>> I notice that in other service dog areas, this breed is not used
: >>>>>>>> as often.
: >>>>>>>> And when people train their own guide dogs or have them privately
: >>>>>>>> trained, it seems that labradors are rarely chosen. What 
advantage
: >>>>>>>> do guide dog programs feel labradors have over other breeds like
: >>>>>>>> the golden retriever, German shepherd, doberman pinscher, or even
: >>>>>>>> the Australian shepherd.
: >>>>>>>> When I asked a GEB instructor why they didn't pass more goldens
: >>>>>>>> through, they said it was because a lot of goldens (their goldens
: >>>>>>>> anyway), didn't have the confidence it took to be a guide dog.
: >>>>>>>> They were not confident enough to make independent or executive
: >>>>>>>> decisions.
: >>>>>>>> Also, I have heard that German shepherds are more sensitive to
: >>>>>>>> corrections, and also require more of a routine. They do not 
adapt
: >>>>>>>> to new environments or change as well as other breeds.
: >>>>>>>> Do you guys find this to be true? What do you think?
: >>>>>>>> Thanks.
: >>>>>>>>
: >>>>>>>> --
: >>>>>>>> Raven
: >>>>>>>>
: >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
: >>>>>>>> nagdu mailing list
: >>>>>>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
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: >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
: >>>>>>>> for
: >>>>>>>> nagdu:
: >>>>>>>>
: >>>>>
: >>>> 
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40waveca
: >>>> ble.co
: >>>>>>>> m
: >>>>>>>>
: >>>>>>>>
: >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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: >>>> et
: >>>>>>>>
: >>>>>>>
: >>>>>>>
: >>>>>>>
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: >>>>>>>
: >>>>>>
: >>>>>>
: >>>>>> --
: >>>>>> Raven
: >>>>>>
: >>>>>> _______________________________________________
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: >>>>>
: >>>>>
: >>>>>
: >>>>> _______________________________________________
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: >>>>
: >>>>
: >>>> --
: >>>> Raven
: >>>>
: >>>> _______________________________________________
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: >>>
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: >>
: >>
: >> --
: >> Raven
: >>
: >> _______________________________________________
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: >>
: >
: >
: > --
: > "All men dream, but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty
: > recesses of their minds, wake in the day to find that it was vanity:
: > but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act on
: > their dreams with open eyes, to make them possible." T. E. Lawrence
: >
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:
:
: -- 
: Raven
:
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