[nagdu] training methods of schools

minh ha minh.ha927 at gmail.com
Fri Sep 20 13:16:00 UTC 2013


Thanks for the clarification; it makes a lot more sense now. I guess
during training, my instructor never really told me the theories
behind what they're doing with the dogs besides the positive
reinforcement of food rewards.

Minh

On 9/20/13, Julie J. <julielj at neb.rr.com> wrote:
> Raven is correct about positive and negative punishment.  If you think of
> positive and negative in the mathematical sense, it might help it make more
>
> sense.  Positive means you are adding something and negative means you are
> removing something.   To me that's clearer than thinking of positive and
> negative in the cultural/social sense.
>
> Anyway that's how I keep it straight,
> Julie
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Raven Tolliver
> Sent: Thursday, September 19, 2013 10:21 PM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] training methods of schools
>
> Hi,
> The martingale check collar is made of a very thick, sturdy strip of
> nylon, so I highly doubt any dog could just snap it in half. You can
> find these in many places--pet stores, Amazon, other retailers. I'm
> sure a Google or Amazon search would yield many results. As far as the
> function of a collar, the slip chain does not have a limit to how
> tight it can get, and it tightens in a way that puts pressure on the
> dog's throat, whereas the martingale check cannot get any tighter than
> the width of the dog's neck, and it applies pressure on all sides
> evenly.
> Positive punishment is adding something that a dog  will work to avoid
> in order to decrease the frequency of a behavior. A leash correction
> or harness check, which is pushing the harness forward into the body
> and firmly pulling it back,are perfect examples. All guide dog schools
> in the US use positive punishment. I said that GDB uses negative
> punishment, which is removing something a dog desires in order to
> decrease the frequency of a behavior. The timeout that GDB uses is a
> perfect example. Another one is ignoring a dog that begs at the dinner
> table. If the dog receives no attention for begging, it will realize
> that this behavior does not yield a reward, and so the behavior will
> stop or minimize. Hope that cleared things up.
>
> On 9/19/13, minh ha <minh.ha927 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Maybe it does look better in public, but I know for my girl, her
>> throat is sensitive so a martingail is very effective, even with a
>> small leash correction. I'm not sure if this is what Raven is
>> referring to as I've never heard of the actual term "positive
>> punishment," but GDB uses timeouts for the dogs when they get
>> distracted. For instance, if we're walking down the street and Viva
>> sees another dog and gets all wiggly and excited, I would use the
>> leash to pull her in right next to my leg and just hold the leash
>> close to the collar and then just ignore her for about ten seconds.
>> This method works really really well for certain dogs and not so well
>> for others.
>>
>> On 9/19/13, Tina Thomas <judotina48kg at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> You are giving a leash correction when you tighten the leash to get your
>>> dog's attention. The only difference is the collar is made out of nylon
>>> so
>>> it looks better in public. Also what is this positive punishment GDB is
>>> using? Also, My girl is a GSD  with a very strong neck and I think that
>>> collar would not be affective. I'm willing to try it for myself. Where
>>> can
>>> I
>>> get this type of collar?
>>> Tina and the girls
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of minh ha
>>> Sent: Thursday, September 19, 2013 5:44 PM
>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] training methods of schools
>>>
>>> Tina,
>>>
>>> What do you mean she could snap it in half? The martingail is made of
>>> nylon
>>> with a middle loop in the middle that tightens up when you do a leash
>>> correction.
>>>
>>> Minh
>>>
>>> On 9/19/13, Tina Thomas <judotina48kg at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> What is positive punishment? Also, I am A Seeing Eye Grad, and we do
>>>> use leash corrections and we also praise the dogs when they are
>>>> exhibiting the desired behavior. As far as clicker training, it was
>>>> used to target train the dogs. I have seen the collars that GDB is
>>>> currently using, and for me I wouldn't use it on my dog, because I know
>>> she would snap it in half.
>>>> However, the collar looks  more  appealing to the public eye.
>>>> Tina and the girls
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Raven
>>>> Tolliver
>>>> Sent: Thursday, September 19, 2013 4:37 PM
>>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] training methods of schools
>>>>
>>>> I believe the Seeing Eye also uses clicker training. I think they are
>>>> starting to phase in treat training as well. Treat training is not
>>>> necessary, but food is a primary reinforcer, so it's incredibly useful.
>>>> I think the Seeing Eye is still correction-heavy with their dogs
>>>> though.
>>>> GEB
>>>> is somewhere between compulsion training and clicker training, leaning
>>>> more toward positive reinforcement training. I think GDB is the most
>>>> positive with their dogs. They use positive punishment, positive
>>>> reinforcement, and negative punishment. Also, they're issuing a lot,
>>>> not all, dogs with martingale check collars.
>>>> Personally, I believe the martingale check should be the norm; I'm
>>>> sure it'll happen one day. Most of the dogs that are trained as guides
>>>> are eager to please, so it would be nice to see gentler ways of
>>>> handling and interacting with them, even when they misbehave.
>>>>
>>>> On 9/19/13, L Gwizdak <leg1950 at cox.net> wrote:
>>>>> Guiding Eyes in New York and Guide Dogs for the Blind in California.
>>>>>
>>>>> Lyn and Landon
>>>>> "Asking who's the man and who's the woman in an LGBT relationship is
>>>>> like asking which chopstick is the fork" - Unknown
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: "Danielle Sykora" <dsykora29 at gmail.com>
>>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Sent: Saturday, September 14, 2013 7:04 PM
>>>>> Subject: [nagdu] training methods of schools
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> How do the different training methods differ between schools? Which
>>>>>> schools have begun to use more positive methods of training such as
>>>>>> food rewards and clicker training? I'm sorry this question is so
>>>>>> vague; however, I am truely curious. It is difficult to determine
>>>>>> this kind of information from a training program's website so I
>>>>>> thought it would be beneficial to ask those with firsthand
>>>>>> experience. Any information would be appreciated.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Danielle
>>>>>>
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>>>>>
>>>>>
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>>>>> om
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Raven
>>>>
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>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> "All men dream, but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty
>>> recesses of their minds, wake in the day to find that it was vanity:
>>> but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act on their
>>> dreams with open eyes, to make them possible." T. E. Lawrence
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>>
>>
>> --
>> "All men dream, but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty
>> recesses of their minds, wake in the day to find that it was vanity:
>> but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act on
>> their dreams with open eyes, to make them possible." T. E. Lawrence
>>
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>
>
> --
> Raven
>
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-- 
"All men dream, but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty
recesses of their minds, wake in the day to find that it was vanity:
but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act on
their dreams with open eyes, to make them possible." T. E. Lawrence




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