[nagdu] Time-outs for Guide Dogs

Sat Sep 21 04:20:01 UTC 2013

I will have to try the time out thing with Lexia. However, I have a feeling
that it probably is not going to work. She will most likely  take the
opportunity to focus more on whatever is distracting her.

-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Shanna Stichler
Sent: Friday, September 20, 2013 8:39 PM
To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Time-outs for Guide Dogs

Well, when I worked there I taught the technique to dogs and handlers both,
so for sure it does work, especially for dogs who are more sensitive. I
don't really talk excessively to my dogs when we're out, so that hasn't ever
really been something they look for. I praise them and things, but I am not
overly affectionate with them when they're working. 
My last GDB dog didn't do time-outs well either, although of course she
learned them as an older dog. With my dogs, probably because I like the
spunky ones, obedience works pretty well, as does reworking a distraction,
if that's possible to do.

My dog works either on a college campus or in a very urban environment most
of the time, so it's easiest to keep her moving as much as possible in order
to stay out of other people's way. I'm really glad your Viva responds well
to time-outs, and that they work for you guys!

Shanna and Diamond
On 9/20/2013 8:40 AM, minh ha wrote:
> Shanna,
>
> I agree with you that the time-out isn't always efficient or 
> effective. Personally though, I love love love this method and it 
> works wonders for Viva when she gets distracted. She loves it when I 
> constantly talk to her and when I just completely ignore her, she 
> knows something is wrong and she'll get back on track super quickly.
> I'm finding that it's harder for me to do this now that I'm back on 
> campus because stopping smack in the middle of the flow of traffic 
> isn't very safe. Also, some dogs just don't really care that their 
> handlers aren't giving them attention and the time-outs are virtually 
> useless. GDB swears by this method though, so who knows.
>
> On 9/20/13, Shanna Stichler <slstich at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hi Darla,
>>
>> GDB implemented a technique a few years ago where, if you notice your 
>> dog getting distracted, you simply stop moving, drop the harness 
>> handle, slide bring the dog close to your left side, and stand still 
>> for about 10 seconds. You give the dog no verbal correction, no 
>> feedback of any kind. After 10-15 seconds or so, you simply pick up 
>> the harness handle and continue on your way. Once the dog passes 
>> whatever the distraction was, I believe you're supposed to 
>> praise/feed the dog. That is what GDB calls a time out. The idea is 
>> that the dog will re-orient to the handler after a few seconds of 
>> it's own accord. It works well with many dogs, but not all. I don't 
>> personally use this technique because, aside from it not working well 
>> with my particular dog, I find it inefficient. Just my opinion though, of
course.
>>
>> Shanna and Diamond
>>    On 9/19/2013 10:45 PM, Darla Rogers wrote:
>>> What is a time-out for dogs, exactly, Shanna?
>>> Curiously,
>>> Darla & Huck
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Shanna 
>>> Stichler
>>> Sent: Thursday, September 19, 2013 10:27 PM
>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] training methods of schools
>>>
>>> A dog with a less sensitive neck is likely not going to respond well 
>>> to a martingale. They just won't feel the correction as much, so you 
>>> will need to correct a lot harder for the dog to notice. This looks 
>>> a lot worse to me, as compared with using a chain slip or even a 
>>> prong collar but minimal to no actual leash handling.
>>>
>>> Also, positive punishment is a leash correction, verbal 
>>> admonishment, etc.
>>> In the context of animal behavior, positive means to add something 
>>> in order to cause a change in behavior, while negative would mean 
>>> taking something away. An example of negative punishment that GDB 
>>> uses is the time-out technique, reworking a distraction, etc. How 
>>> effective those things are will depend on the dog. Mine thinks 
>>> time-outs are actually a reward, and simply stands next to me and 
>>> watches the distraction, which is typically a small animal, for 
>>> instance.
>>>
>>> Shanna and Diamond
>>> On 9/19/2013 8:07 PM, Tina Thomas wrote:
>>>> You are giving a leash correction when you tighten the leash to get 
>>>> your dog's attention. The only difference is the collar is made out 
>>>> of nylon so it looks better in public. Also what is this positive 
>>>> punishment GDB is using? Also, My girl is a GSD  with a very strong 
>>>> neck and I think that collar would not be affective. I'm willing to 
>>>> try it for myself. Where can I get this type of collar?
>>>> Tina and the girls
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of minh ha
>>>> Sent: Thursday, September 19, 2013 5:44 PM
>>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] training methods of schools
>>>>
>>>> Tina,
>>>>
>>>> What do you mean she could snap it in half? The martingail is made 
>>>> of nylon with a middle loop in the middle that tightens up when you 
>>>> do a leash correction.
>>>>
>>>> Minh
>>>>
>>>> On 9/19/13, Tina Thomas <judotina48kg at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> What is positive punishment? Also, I am A Seeing Eye Grad, and we 
>>>>> do use leash corrections and we also praise the dogs when they are 
>>>>> exhibiting the desired behavior. As far as clicker training, it 
>>>>> was used to target train the dogs. I have seen the collars that 
>>>>> GDB is currently using, and for me I wouldn't use it on my dog, 
>>>>> because I know
>>>> she would snap it in half.
>>>>> However, the collar looks  more  appealing to the public eye.
>>>>> Tina and the girls
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Raven 
>>>>> Tolliver
>>>>> Sent: Thursday, September 19, 2013 4:37 PM
>>>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog 
>>>>> Users
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] training methods of schools
>>>>>
>>>>> I believe the Seeing Eye also uses clicker training. I think they 
>>>>> are starting to phase in treat training as well. Treat training is 
>>>>> not necessary, but food is a primary reinforcer, so it's incredibly
useful.
>>>>> I think the Seeing Eye is still correction-heavy with their dogs 
>>>>> though.
>>>>> GEB
>>>>> is somewhere between compulsion training and clicker training, 
>>>>> leaning more toward positive reinforcement training. I think GDB 
>>>>> is the most positive with their dogs. They use positive 
>>>>> punishment, positive reinforcement, and negative punishment. Also, 
>>>>> they're issuing a lot, not all, dogs with martingale check collars.
>>>>> Personally, I believe the martingale check should be the norm; I'm 
>>>>> sure it'll happen one day. Most of the dogs that are trained as 
>>>>> guides are eager to please, so it would be nice to see gentler 
>>>>> ways of handling and interacting with them, even when they misbehave.
>>>>>
>>>>> On 9/19/13, L Gwizdak <leg1950 at cox.net> wrote:
>>>>>> Guiding Eyes in New York and Guide Dogs for the Blind in California.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Lyn and Landon
>>>>>> "Asking who's the man and who's the woman in an LGBT relationship 
>>>>>> is like asking which chopstick is the fork" - Unknown
>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>> From: "Danielle Sykora" <dsykora29 at gmail.com>
>>>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>>>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, September 14, 2013 7:04 PM
>>>>>> Subject: [nagdu] training methods of schools
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> How do the different training methods differ between schools? 
>>>>>>> Which schools have begun to use more positive methods of 
>>>>>>> training such as food rewards and clicker training? I'm sorry 
>>>>>>> this question is so vague; however, I am truely curious. It is 
>>>>>>> difficult to determine this kind of information from a training 
>>>>>>> program's website so I thought it would be beneficial to ask 
>>>>>>> those with firsthand experience. Any information would be
appreciated.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Danielle
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>> --
>>>>> Raven
>>>>>
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>

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