[nagdu] Time-outs for Guide Dogs

Sat Sep 21 04:39:44 UTC 2013

That's what mine do, Nicole! lol It does take a little wile for the dogs 
to get the idea, if you do try it, so I'd give it a week or so to be 
sure, or less if you notice no improvement at all, of course.

Shanna and Diamond
On 9/20/2013 11:20 PM, Nicole Torcolini wrote:
> I will have to try the time out thing with Lexia. However, I have a feeling
> that it probably is not going to work. She will most likely  take the
> opportunity to focus more on whatever is distracting her.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Shanna Stichler
> Sent: Friday, September 20, 2013 8:39 PM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Time-outs for Guide Dogs
>
> Well, when I worked there I taught the technique to dogs and handlers both,
> so for sure it does work, especially for dogs who are more sensitive. I
> don't really talk excessively to my dogs when we're out, so that hasn't ever
> really been something they look for. I praise them and things, but I am not
> overly affectionate with them when they're working.
> My last GDB dog didn't do time-outs well either, although of course she
> learned them as an older dog. With my dogs, probably because I like the
> spunky ones, obedience works pretty well, as does reworking a distraction,
> if that's possible to do.
>
> My dog works either on a college campus or in a very urban environment most
> of the time, so it's easiest to keep her moving as much as possible in order
> to stay out of other people's way. I'm really glad your Viva responds well
> to time-outs, and that they work for you guys!
>
> Shanna and Diamond
> On 9/20/2013 8:40 AM, minh ha wrote:
>> Shanna,
>>
>> I agree with you that the time-out isn't always efficient or
>> effective. Personally though, I love love love this method and it
>> works wonders for Viva when she gets distracted. She loves it when I
>> constantly talk to her and when I just completely ignore her, she
>> knows something is wrong and she'll get back on track super quickly.
>> I'm finding that it's harder for me to do this now that I'm back on
>> campus because stopping smack in the middle of the flow of traffic
>> isn't very safe. Also, some dogs just don't really care that their
>> handlers aren't giving them attention and the time-outs are virtually
>> useless. GDB swears by this method though, so who knows.
>>
>> On 9/20/13, Shanna Stichler <slstich at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Hi Darla,
>>>
>>> GDB implemented a technique a few years ago where, if you notice your
>>> dog getting distracted, you simply stop moving, drop the harness
>>> handle, slide bring the dog close to your left side, and stand still
>>> for about 10 seconds. You give the dog no verbal correction, no
>>> feedback of any kind. After 10-15 seconds or so, you simply pick up
>>> the harness handle and continue on your way. Once the dog passes
>>> whatever the distraction was, I believe you're supposed to
>>> praise/feed the dog. That is what GDB calls a time out. The idea is
>>> that the dog will re-orient to the handler after a few seconds of
>>> it's own accord. It works well with many dogs, but not all. I don't
>>> personally use this technique because, aside from it not working well
>>> with my particular dog, I find it inefficient. Just my opinion though, of
> course.
>>> Shanna and Diamond
>>>     On 9/19/2013 10:45 PM, Darla Rogers wrote:
>>>> What is a time-out for dogs, exactly, Shanna?
>>>> Curiously,
>>>> Darla & Huck
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Shanna
>>>> Stichler
>>>> Sent: Thursday, September 19, 2013 10:27 PM
>>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] training methods of schools
>>>>
>>>> A dog with a less sensitive neck is likely not going to respond well
>>>> to a martingale. They just won't feel the correction as much, so you
>>>> will need to correct a lot harder for the dog to notice. This looks
>>>> a lot worse to me, as compared with using a chain slip or even a
>>>> prong collar but minimal to no actual leash handling.
>>>>
>>>> Also, positive punishment is a leash correction, verbal
>>>> admonishment, etc.
>>>> In the context of animal behavior, positive means to add something
>>>> in order to cause a change in behavior, while negative would mean
>>>> taking something away. An example of negative punishment that GDB
>>>> uses is the time-out technique, reworking a distraction, etc. How
>>>> effective those things are will depend on the dog. Mine thinks
>>>> time-outs are actually a reward, and simply stands next to me and
>>>> watches the distraction, which is typically a small animal, for
>>>> instance.
>>>>
>>>> Shanna and Diamond
>>>> On 9/19/2013 8:07 PM, Tina Thomas wrote:
>>>>> You are giving a leash correction when you tighten the leash to get
>>>>> your dog's attention. The only difference is the collar is made out
>>>>> of nylon so it looks better in public. Also what is this positive
>>>>> punishment GDB is using? Also, My girl is a GSD  with a very strong
>>>>> neck and I think that collar would not be affective. I'm willing to
>>>>> try it for myself. Where can I get this type of collar?
>>>>> Tina and the girls
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of minh ha
>>>>> Sent: Thursday, September 19, 2013 5:44 PM
>>>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] training methods of schools
>>>>>
>>>>> Tina,
>>>>>
>>>>> What do you mean she could snap it in half? The martingail is made
>>>>> of nylon with a middle loop in the middle that tightens up when you
>>>>> do a leash correction.
>>>>>
>>>>> Minh
>>>>>
>>>>> On 9/19/13, Tina Thomas <judotina48kg at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> What is positive punishment? Also, I am A Seeing Eye Grad, and we
>>>>>> do use leash corrections and we also praise the dogs when they are
>>>>>> exhibiting the desired behavior. As far as clicker training, it
>>>>>> was used to target train the dogs. I have seen the collars that
>>>>>> GDB is currently using, and for me I wouldn't use it on my dog,
>>>>>> because I know
>>>>> she would snap it in half.
>>>>>> However, the collar looks  more  appealing to the public eye.
>>>>>> Tina and the girls
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Raven
>>>>>> Tolliver
>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, September 19, 2013 4:37 PM
>>>>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog
>>>>>> Users
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] training methods of schools
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I believe the Seeing Eye also uses clicker training. I think they
>>>>>> are starting to phase in treat training as well. Treat training is
>>>>>> not necessary, but food is a primary reinforcer, so it's incredibly
> useful.
>>>>>> I think the Seeing Eye is still correction-heavy with their dogs
>>>>>> though.
>>>>>> GEB
>>>>>> is somewhere between compulsion training and clicker training,
>>>>>> leaning more toward positive reinforcement training. I think GDB
>>>>>> is the most positive with their dogs. They use positive
>>>>>> punishment, positive reinforcement, and negative punishment. Also,
>>>>>> they're issuing a lot, not all, dogs with martingale check collars.
>>>>>> Personally, I believe the martingale check should be the norm; I'm
>>>>>> sure it'll happen one day. Most of the dogs that are trained as
>>>>>> guides are eager to please, so it would be nice to see gentler
>>>>>> ways of handling and interacting with them, even when they misbehave.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 9/19/13, L Gwizdak <leg1950 at cox.net> wrote:
>>>>>>> Guiding Eyes in New York and Guide Dogs for the Blind in California.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Lyn and Landon
>>>>>>> "Asking who's the man and who's the woman in an LGBT relationship
>>>>>>> is like asking which chopstick is the fork" - Unknown
>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>> From: "Danielle Sykora" <dsykora29 at gmail.com>
>>>>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>>>>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, September 14, 2013 7:04 PM
>>>>>>> Subject: [nagdu] training methods of schools
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> How do the different training methods differ between schools?
>>>>>>>> Which schools have begun to use more positive methods of
>>>>>>>> training such as food rewards and clicker training? I'm sorry
>>>>>>>> this question is so vague; however, I am truely curious. It is
>>>>>>>> difficult to determine this kind of information from a training
>>>>>>>> program's website so I thought it would be beneficial to ask
>>>>>>>> those with firsthand experience. Any information would be
> appreciated.
>>>>>>>> Danielle
>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>> t
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>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Raven
>>>>>>
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>>>>> --
>>>>> "All men dream, but not equally. Those who dream by night in the
>>>>> dusty recesses of their minds, wake in the day to find that it was
> vanity:
>>>>> but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act on
>>>>> their dreams with open eyes, to make them possible." T. E. Lawrence
>>>>>
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