[nagdu] barking in harness?

Fri Aug 1 04:08:42 UTC 2014

Vivianna,
The problem with correction-based training/handling is that it focuses
solely on the handler's emotions and expectations. Also, this method
focuses on fixing behaviors by addressing specific actions external of
their causes or triggers. Force-free training acknowledges and
utilizes both the dog and handler's emotions and expectations, and it
also addresses problems at their roots. Correcting for a behavior
shows a gross lack of consideration about a dog's nature. No dog does
a thing just because it's fossible or because they feel like being
testy or spiteful. They have a reason, and it is up to us to figure
out what it is and provide them with guidance to teach them self
control and coping skills for certain situations.
Also, if anyone wants a dog who doesn't bark, I think that person
doesn't want a dog. I once was chatting with a woman at the shelter
who was considering adopting a dog. I asked her if she had any
preferences. She said: "Yes, could you match me with a dog that
doesn't bark?" Confused, I asked what she meant. She said she didn't
want her dog to bark at all because she thought barking of any kind
was inappropriate. After some probing, I found out this woman never
had a dog before, and that she disliked several doggy-specific
behaviors. I gently steered her toward the cats and rabbits.
I'm not saying barking isn't inappropriate in-harness, but really,
it's a dog! They have instinctive ways of reacting to things, and
expecting them not to follow any of their instincts is disrespecting
their nature. Constant and persistent barking in-harness is highly
problematic. But once in a while, it happens and we redirect them, and
hopefully figure out why they reacted that way so we can properly
teach our dogs to react differently.

On 7/31/14, Tami Jarvis via nagdu <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> Buddy,
>
> I totally agree. Yes, barking in harness is a no-no. But barking can be
> stimulated by different triggers and different emotions in the dog. If
> the trigger causes the dog to feel excited/anxious/afraid, then adding a
> hard correction can add more excitement/anxiety/fear, which the dog is
> likely to associate with the trigger upon which it is focused at the
> time. So correcting is not solving the problem and can make it worse. A
> calmer approach to redirect the dog to get its attention and get it
> doing something besides barking at the trigger will get you farther
> faster. Also, as you mentioned, if you know what the trigger is and have
> some idea why the dog is barking at it, you can set up those training
> opportunities somewhere not in public to work on it.
>
> Tami
>
> On 07/31/2014 02:28 PM, Buddy Brannan via nagdu wrote:
>> While you've got some good points here, I think it really is important to
>> know why something's happening. Certainly if you know why something's
>> happening, you can use that to some advantage. Sure, you want to stop an
>> undesirable behavior. But would it not be easier to stop the behavior if
>> you understand its source? If for no other reason than setting things up
>> such that training opportunities can be had?
>>
>> On Jul 31, 2014, at 5:21 PM, Vivianna via nagdu<nagdu at nfbnet.org>  wrote:
>>
>>> >you are rationalizing.  sometimes bad behavior is just that, bad
>>> > behavior.
>>> >no, means no.
>>> >no barking.  lol.
>>> >you don't want her to start that, it's hard to stop and next it will be
>>> > in a mall or restaurant.  wait, i think you already told us that she
>>> > barks in stores?
>>> >even if there is a dog there, so what?  she should still not be barking
>>> > at it.
>>> >but, that's just my opinion.  i believe that sometimes a good no and a
>>> > leash correction are in order.  mind you, i am not taking 2 hands and
>>> > flipping my dog on her back.  lol.
>>> >and, yes, most times behaviors can be stopped with a word or a
>>> > re-direction.  but, some things just are not acceptable in a guide dog
>>> > and, barking is one of them.
>>> >even though many schools give you treats for the dogs, every single one
>>> > of them also gives you a correction collar on that dog also.
>>> >all this talk of treats and no leash corrections does get me going.
>>> > sometimes a dog is just not paying attention or, yes, even, being bad.
>>> > if your dog runs a curb and walks you out into traffic then you will be
>>> > in big troubles.  so, not running curbs is a big thing for me.  you
>>> > don't stop in the middle of traffic and try and re-direct that dog.
>>> > so, i make it perfectly clear that stopping at curbs is a complete
>>> > must, all the time, every time, no exceptions.
>>> >it's my belief that a public place can even ask you to leave if your dog
>>> > is being a nuisance such as barking or being otherwise out of control.
>>> >
>>> >and, just FYI, i am really a nice person, ask anybody who knows me.
>>> > but, i do say it how it is and don't beat around the bush.
>>> >
>>> >vivianna
>>> >On Jul 31, 2014, at 3:30 PM, Daryl Marie via nagdu<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>> > wrote:
>>> >
>>>> >>Hey matthew,
>>>> >>In previous posts, I have stated that I am moving away from
>>>> >> corrections and towads redirection or positive reinforcement.
>>>> >>
>>>> >>To the list:
>>>> >>I think I may have solved the mystery!
>>>> >>At that time of day, the sun reflects off the plateglass front door of
>>>> >> the office downstairs, so her reflection bounces back at her. She
>>>> >> approaches the door, so does the reflection/perceived other dog. Her
>>>> >> nose hits the ground, so does the reflection/other dog. Because this
>>>> >> area is very small, she may feel slightly trapped, thus leading to
>>>> >> the barking...
>>>> >>Does this make sense? or am I just rationalizing?
>>>> >>
>>>> >>Daryl
>>>> >>----- Original Message -----
>>>> >>From: Matthew Dyer<ilovecountrymusic483 at gmail.com>
>>>> >>To: Daryl Marie<crazymusician at shaw.ca>, NAGDU Mailing List, the
>>>> >> National Association of Guide Dog Users<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>> >>Sent: Thu, 31 Jul 2014 14:06:19 -0600 (MDT)
>>>> >>Subject: Re: [nagdu] barking in harness?
>>>> >>
>>>> >>Hi,
>>>> >>
>>>> >>Yes, is he used to do the same thing. They ended up switching me out
>>>> >> with a new dog that I have now. Her name is Chrissy. In any event,
>>>> >> just keep working with her. And I would continue to correct her if
>>>> >> she continues. Otherwise if it does continue, contact the school and
>>>> >> see what they can do to help you. Thanks.
>>>> >>
>>>> >>Matthew
>>>> >>
>>>> >>Sent from my iPhone.
>>>> >>Skype: graduater2004. Email and face
>>>> >> time/iMessage:ilovecountrymusic483 at gmail.com
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>>> >>>On Jul 31, 2014, at 3:25 PM, Daryl Marie via nagdu<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> >>>  wrote:
>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>>Hey!
>>>>> >>>Just had a funny thing happen today. A group of us went out for
>>>>> >>> lunch, then when we came back, Jenny just let out a couple of short
>>>>> >>> barks (bark, pause, bark, pause, bark) at something or someone on
>>>>> >>> the other side of the glass door leading to the office downstairs
>>>>> >>> in our building. She was able to be redirected easily, so we went
>>>>> >>> upstairs, took a 5-10-minute break, and went back downstairs (I
>>>>> >>> thought she was barking at Gizmo, who I wrote about previously).  I
>>>>> >>> figured, hey, training opportunity!
>>>>> >>>Well, we got downstairs, and again, she barked once at something on
>>>>> >>> the other side of the door. I didn't hear anything or anyone, so I
>>>>> >>> had her lie down by the second door (the one that leads upstairs),
>>>>> >>> and I opened the door to the office downstairs, and there was
>>>>> >>> nothing or no one there.
>>>>> >>>She has never done this before (except once at Gizmo), but people at
>>>>> >>> work seem to think there's another dog down there.
>>>>> >>>Any pointers, advice?
>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>>Daryl
>>>>> >>>
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>>>> >>
>>>> >>
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>>> >
>>> >
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>>
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>
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-- 
Raven
"if God didn't make it, don't eat it." - John B. Symes, D.V.M.
http://dogtorj.com