[nagdu] One Small Victory

Sun Dec 7 23:10:35 UTC 2014

Jack,

	This is not accurate. A church is not a place of public
accommodation and is exempt from the provisions of the ADA and its
implementing regulations. So are private clubs, such as the Elks, Moose,
Masons, etc. Please see my previous message on this thread in which I
include the text of the USC.

Fraternally yours,
Marion Gwizdala


o

-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of JACK RUPERT Sr.
via nagdu
Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2014 5:37 PM
To: Daryl Lang; NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog
Users
Subject: Re: [nagdu] One Small Victory

Document a church is just like any other public place you go your service
dog guy dog is allowed to be there

Sent from my iPhone

> On Dec 7, 2014, at 4:24 PM, Daryl Lang via nagdu <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> 
> This brings up an interesting question. When we go to New York, we will be
doing a New York City gospel music tour. This concludes at a church. Would
this fall under the ADA? Or a religious exception? What are your thoughts?
> 
>> On December 6, 2014 5:29:52 PM MST, Marion Gwizdala via nagdu
<nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>> Nicole and All,
>> 
>>    Even though it might be argued that, because a person prays in 
>> their car, it is a place of worship, it could be argued that anywhere 
>> a person prays is a place of worship. If one prays in a restaurant, 
>> would it be considered a place of worship? What about the meetings of 
>> a governmental entity in which there is an invocation? If a religious 
>> service is held in a park or someone goes there to pray and meditate, 
>> would it then be considered a place of worship? The Americans with 
>> Disabilities Act exempts "religious organizations or entities 
>> controlled by religious organizations". Even if the driver of the 
>> taxicab were a cleric, the taxicab would not be a religious 
>> organization or entity controlled by a religious organization.
>> Following is the text of 42 USC 12187 which applies to such entities:.
>> 
>> The provisions of this title shall not apply to private clubs or 
>> establishments exempted from coverage under title II of the Civil 
>> Rights Act of 1964 (42 U.S.C. 2000- a(e)) or to religious 
>> organizations or entities controlled by religious organizations, 
>> including places of worship.
>> 
>> 
>>    By definition, a taxicab is a place of public accommodation under 
>> United States law. In cases in which one's religious tenets are not 
>> congruent with law, the law preempts the religious tenet. In other 
>> words, one's freedom of religion ends where the law begins. If, for 
>> instance, one's religious tenets allowed for human sacrifice, the law 
>> prohibits homicide, so the religious tenet is illegal. Attached to 
>> this message is a legal opinion from the City solicitor of Cincinnati 
>> concerning taxicabs, allergies, and religion. This is only one 
>> opinion and this opinion is only a valid opinion for the City of 
>> Cincinnati; however, it is a very sound opinion to guide other 
>> jurisdictions.
>> 
>> Fraternally yours,
>> 
>> Marion Gwizdala, President
>> National Association of Guide Dog Users Inc.
>> National Federation of the Blind
>> (813) 626-2789
>> (888) 624-3841 (Hotline)
>> President at nagdu.org
>> http://www.nagdu.org
>> 
>> High expectations create unlimited potential for the blind!
>> 
>> .
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Nicole 
>> Torcolini via nagdu
>> Sent: Saturday, December 06, 2014 1:46 PM
>> To: 'Dan Weiner'; 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of 
>> Guide Dog Users'; 'Tracy Carcione'
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] One Small Victory
>> 
>> I am not the moderator, but, to Dan and all, please be more careful 
>> when making statements about that. I don't know that much about the 
>> Muslim religion, but I know a little bit. It has nothing to do with 
>> soap and water.
>> Dogs--or their saliva, I don't know which--are considered impure by 
>> the Muslim religion. Also, I seem to recall hearing something about 
>> Muslims praying multiple times daily, and they pray in their cars, so 
>> their cars are considered places of worship, and having a dog in 
>> their cars would make their cars impure.
>> 
>> Nicole
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Dan Weiner 
>> via nagdu
>> Sent: Saturday, December 06, 2014 9:43 AM
>> To: 'Tracy Carcione'; 'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of 
>> Guide Dog Users'
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] One Small Victory
>> 
>> Those guys must have never heard of soap and water.
>> 
>> Dan
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Tracy 
>> Carcione via nagdu
>> Sent: Saturday, December 06, 2014 12:39 PM
>> To: Debby Phillips; NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of 
>> Guide Dog Users
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] One Small Victory
>> 
>> I think many Muslims have a taboo against being licked by a dog. 
>> That's
>> probably why he didn't want the dog's mouth near him.  I've had 
>> drivers tell me the same, and I do my best to keep my dog's head near 
>> me and away from the driver.
>> Tracy
>> 
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Debby Phillips via nagdu" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> To: "Dudley Hanks" <dhanks at dudley-hanks.com>; "NAGDU Mailing List,the 
>> National Association of Guide Dog Users" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>; 
>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Friday, December 05, 2014 9:25 PM
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] One Small Victory
>> 
>> 
>>> What was his reason for not allowing you in to his cab? Did he just 
>>> say no? Or did he give some reason for not letting you in? I'VE 
>>> never
>> 
>>> been denied a ride but one time this cab driver said that he didn't 
>>> want my dog's mouth near him.  So I held her face in my hands and 
>>> petted her which she didn't mind.  But I thought that was kind of a 
>>> strange request-it wasn't like we were in the front seat and my dog 
>>> was
>> going to lick him.
>>> Lol.    Peace,    Debby
>>> 
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>>> et
>> 
>> 
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> --
> Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
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