[nagdu] Retired Guides; Do the same access laws apply?

Cindy Ray cindyray at gmail.com
Wed Dec 31 15:23:16 UTC 2014


When I retired Spencer it was really very sudden. It shouldn't have been, but I was in denial up until he decided in the airport at Minneapolis that he was done, at least with unfamiliar, high stress areas. So Sunday I came home, Monday I visited with the school, and right away I went back to the school without Spencer. This was hard on him because he was one of those dogs who was mopy if I wasn't there with him. I obtained permission to bring him back to the school, and I kept him there for six weeks through the last of the semester. The school had no problem with this of course. However, several things happened that made me feel certain it was the wrong thing to do. First of all, he was a much larger dog than was allowed in the pet guidelines in residences. Second, there was only one building where pets were allowed, and I did not live there. Third, someone else was sneaking dogs into my building and caring for them even though that was not allowed. Last, I was invited to a little party at one of the residences in the building where pets were allowed, and the people had pets. They asked that I not bring Spencer there. I couldn't argue this point since he was no longer working. They knew he wasn't, so to have put a harness on him and bring him there as a working dog would have been blatantly dishonest. It occurred to me that even though Spencer had been a service dog, in reality he was no longer one, so I decided that I wouldn't bring him back there anymore. I personally think that the dog is still well trained and can do well under these circumstances, but for me it is really not right to think that that dog and I have the same rights once he has retired.

Cindy



-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Jenine Stanley via nagdu
Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2014 9:13 AM
To: Tracy Carcione; NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Retired Guides; Do the same access laws apply?

Interesting arguments for the status of a “retired” dog. 

I’ll say this, and it’s not a reflection of anything more than my personal opinion. 

Just because you can do something doesn’t mean it’s the right thing to do. If we want others to obey the laws and be honest about what their dogs do or don’t do for them, we need to lead by example. 

Sure, I can take my now retired dog in harness anywhere I want and he’s technically still an assistance dog because he is minimally working and expected to behave as such but to do so to get out of paying a pet deposit? 

I’m not saying that’s what Chaim is doing as I’ve known him as a very ethical person over the years but it is something to ponder. 

It’s also hard to justify the dog who stays home most of the time and is rarely seen doing any type of work as being a currently working assistance dog. 

Just saying’.
Jenine Stanley
jeninems at wowway.com

http://www.twitter.com/jeninems

> On Dec 31, 2014, at 8:24 AM, Tracy Carcione via nagdu <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> 
> But you could, if you wanted.  Julie J's argument is an interesting one I never thought of before.  If, say, I occasionally worked my retired guide to some place in the neighborhood, he'd still technically be a service dog.  I think it might give my current guide kinnipchins, but it could certainly be done.
> Tracy
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Nicole Torcolini via nagdu" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> To: "'Julie J.'" <julielj at neb.rr.com>; "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>; "'Chaim B. Segal'" <chaimsegal at sbcglobal.net>
> Sent: Tuesday, December 30, 2014 5:29 PM
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Retired Guides; Do the same access laws apply?
> 
> 
>> Since dogs that are trained at schools are mostly done with their training
>> when given to their handlers, I do not think that as many people who receive
>> dogs from schools work a new dog and a partially retired dog.
>> 
>> Nicole
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Julie J. via
>> nagdu
>> Sent: Tuesday, December 30, 2014 2:21 PM
>> To: Chaim B. Segal; NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog
>> Users
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Retired Guides; Do the same access laws apply?
>> 
>> The factors that make a dog a service dog are:
>> *is the dog individually trained to mitigate a disability?
>> a retired guide is still trained to do specific tasks.  If the training is
>> kept up and the dog can reliably perform disability related tasks, then this
>> item is met.
>> *does the handler have a disability?
>> the answer here is yes
>> *does the dog perform tasks that mitigate the handler's disability?
>> the answer here is maybe.   If you still work the dog sometimes or alternate
>> 
>> between dogs, then I'd say both are service dogs.  If you never work the
>> dog, then he's not mitigating your disability and is no longer a service
>> dog.
>> 
>> HTH
>> Julie
>> Courage to Dare: A Blind Woman's Quest to Train her Own Guide Dog is now
>> available! Get the book here:
>> http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00QXZSMOC
>> Visit my new website on developing courage and living authentically:
>> http://www.falling-up.com
>> -----Original Message----- From: Chaim B. Segal via nagdu
>> Sent: Tuesday, December 30, 2014 3:19 PM
>> To: seeingeye-l at list.web.net
>> Cc: nagdu at nfbnet.org
>> Subject: [nagdu] Retired Guides; Do the same access laws apply?
>> 
>> Hi All on both lists:
>> 
>> Chaim Segal here. It looks as though I will likely need to move out of my
>> current house in the nearly immediate future, as my mother needs to enter
>> senior care. At present time, my current earnings are not enough to sustain
>> rent in our current town-house. Therefore, I need to weigh my options when
>> moving myself and my wife out into an apartment. Our current apartment
>> manager has been gracious, and has not charged us an extra pet deposit for
>> Keeper (my third guide) once he retired. We only pay a deposit for our cat
>> which my wife and I purchased as a kitten around six years ago. This being
>> said, I have been hearing conflicting information throughout the years.
>> 
>> At some point back in the 90s, I thought I once heard that a retired guide
>> dog has the same access rules regarding rent and access that a currently
>> working guide has. I was surprised to hear that. I was not considering the
>> fact that I would need to know for sure some day.
>> 
>>  Earlier this year, my mother and I attempted to take both Keeper and
>> Yahtzee (current guide) to the vet on paratransit. The driver insisted that
>> Keeper must be in a carrier while riding the bus. Officials at Greater
>> Dayton RTA backed her up. At the time, I did not pursue the matter, because
>> the driver in question is uncomfortable with dogs to begin with.
>> 
>> So, I now need to know one way or the other, in order to determine how many
>> pet deposits will need to be paid. The best I could hope for is to find a
>> place where pets are welcome without a silly deposit or fee. But, is Keeper
>> considered a pet, or does he still have higher status despite his
>> retirement?
>> 
>> Thanks!
>> 
>> Chaim
>> 
>> Chaim B. Segal
>> Customer Service Representative
>> Sinclair Community College
>> E-mail: chaimsegal at sbcglobal.net
>> 
>> Every man, woman, every boy and girl,
>> Let your love light shine, make a better world.
>> [Daryl Hall & John Oates
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> nagdu mailing list
>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nagdu:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/julielj%40neb.rr.com
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> nagdu mailing list
>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nagdu:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.co
>> m
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> nagdu mailing list
>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nagdu:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/carcione%40access.net
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nagdu mailing list
> nagdu at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nagdu:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/jeninems%40wowway.com


_______________________________________________
nagdu mailing list
nagdu at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nagdu:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/cindyray%40gmail.com





More information about the NAGDU mailing list