[nagdu] Miniature Guide Horses WAS Cincinnati Family with miniature horse service animal, sues city.

Sun Feb 23 03:18:18 UTC 2014

I am assuming, Tai, though I am sure Ann will chime in, she probably asks
for a seat with the most leg room or an empty seat beside her if it's
possible.
Darla & handsome Huck

-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Tai Blas
Sent: Saturday, February 22, 2014 6:03 PM
To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Miniature Guide Horses WAS Cincinnati Family with
miniature horse service animal, sues city.

How could a guide horse fly on an airplane? Where would they stand?

Tai Tomasi
J.D. Candidate, class of 2014
Email: tai.tomasi8 at gmail.com
Sent from my iPhone. Please excuse my brevity and any grammatical errors.

> On Feb 22, 2014, at 12:47 AM, "Ann Edie" <annedie at nycap.rr.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi, Daryl and Everyone,
> 
> You asked how or why I switched from using guide dogs to working with 
> a miniature horse guide.  Well, my decision to work with a miniature 
> horse guide was prompted by many experiences and philosophical factors.
> 
> First of all, perhaps, was my experience with guide dogs.  After 
> working for
> 9 years with my first, wonderful chocolate Labrador guide dog, I 
> experienced
> 2 heart-breaking attempted partnerships with one male and one female 
> German shepherd guide.  I decided that, even in the case of the very 
> successful guide dog, the working lifespan of dogs is painfully short, 
> and the disruption during the period of the decline of the working 
> guide, the loss of that relationship, the time of transition to a new 
> dog guide, and the period of adjustment and team building with the new 
> dog guide, were just too stressful for me physically, emotionally and 
> in terms of time commitment for me to want to repeat the process every 
> few years.  And it is even harder if you throw in the occasional 
> mismatch or match with a dog who decides he/she really isn't prepared to
work full time as a guide.
> 
> Second, I am, and have always been, a horse lover.  At the time I got 
> my miniature horse, I already owned 3 riding horses and was very 
> involved in their care and training.  I knew that horses are 
> intelligent enough to do guide work and that many of them have the 
> temperament to do the work.  I also knew that horses do look upon the 
> humans with whom they have close relationships as members of their 
> bands (families), and do take on the roles of companion and 
> guide/protector as needed.  My own Arabian horse, Magnat, acted as my 
> guide both when I was riding him and when I was walking with him.  I 
> had trained him to stop at changes of footing and elevation and before 
> going through doorways or gateways so that I could orient myself and 
> make sure the passage was clear.  He was also a wonderful retriever 
> who would not only happily pick up grooming tools that regularly flew 
> out of my hand while I was vigorously brushing him, but would also 
> tidy up the arena by bringing me sundry objects which others had 
> dropped , like whips, hats, tissues, and little traffic cones.  And 
> miniature horses have an average lifespan of 30-40 years or more, 
> compared with the 10-15 year lifespan of dogs, which means you can 
> expect an amazing, long-lasting and continuously deepening 
> relationship with one very special animal partner.  Around the year 
> 2000 I began hearing reports of the Guide Horse Foundation's training 
> of the first miniature horses as guides for blind people, and I was
intrigued.  I had not known up to that time, that there were horses small
enough to serve as guides.
> 
> Third, through my interests in dogs and horses and their training 
> (obedience for dogs as well as guide work, and dressage riding and 
> general management for horses) I had become convinced that I wanted a 
> guide animal trained with methods which relied on positive 
> reinforcement rather than what is called "correction" in the guide dog 
> world.  By the year 2000, methods which were based in behavioral 
> science and which relied on positive reinforcement were becoming the 
> norm in training dogs as well as most other species of animals for all
types of management, performance, and companionship/obedience tasks.
> However, guide dog training programs were largely entrenched in the 
> traditional methods which relied on correction both during the dogs'
> training and in the relationship between the dog and handler after 
> placement.  I had become accustomed to working with my horses and dogs 
> in the more positive way, and I no longer wanted to go back to the 
> punishment-based methods of the guide dog programs.
> 
> Fourth, I was fortunate to be working and sharing a barn with 
> Alexandra Kurland, who is the foremost advocate of positive training 
> methods, specifically, clicker training, in the horse world.  So when 
> I expressed to Alex my interest in perhaps working with a miniature 
> horse guide instead of a successor guide dog, she responded with a 
> proposal that we acquire and train a miniature horse to be my guide, 
> and that we use clicker training exclusively both to train and to 
> handle the guide horse, to which I enthusiastically agreed.
> 
> So, in the summer of 2001, we started searching the internet for a 
> suitable young miniature horse.  We found a good prospect in Florida, 
> flew down to meet her, and knew immediately that she would be our little
clicker guide.
> Panda came to live with Alex in September, 2001, in the days just 
> after 9-11 when we were all in a shocked daze, wondering what the 
> world would be like in the next months and years.  She definitely 
> proved to be a bright star in a time of darkness and doubt.  Panda was 
> just 8 months old when she started her training, which was a 
> combination of both basic socialization and guide training, and which 
> lasted about 18 months.  She was actually ready to go to work 
> full-time earlier, but we didn't want to have her begin her working 
> life until she was over two years old.  Panda came to live with me and 
> became my full-time guide in the summer of 2003, and she has been the 
> most wonderful, consistent, confident, and intelligent guide that 
> anyone could hope for.  She just celebrated her 13th birthday, and we 
> have been working together for ten and a half years, with the prospect of
decades of happy partnership ahead of us.
> 
> In answer to your question about how guide horses work-- They do all 
> of the same guide tasks as guide dogs do, although sometimes they do 
> it a bit differently than the dogs.  For example, instead of going 
> under a table or chair in a restaurant or on the bus, the guide horse 
> stands beside my chair or between the bus seats.  The horses don't sit 
> as dogs do, but they either stand or lie down instead.  They do all 
> the usual guide tasks such as stopping at curbs and stairs, going 
> around obstacles, changing speed for uneven footing or for ice, mud, 
> water, etc., looking out for overhead obstacles, turning left and 
> right on cue, monitoring moving vehicles at driveways and street 
> crossings and exercising intelligent disobedience when necessary, and 
> finding specific places in the environment, such as doors to go inside 
> or outside, elevators, stairs, checkout counters, pedestrian signal 
> buttons, home, etc.  And yes, they are housetrained and relieve on leash
and on cue, just as the dogs do.
> 
> The organization I mentioned earlier, the Guide Horse Foundation, 
> trained the first working guide horse team, Dan Shaw and Cuddles, in 
> the spring of 2001.  That organization trained a few more teams in the 
> next couple of years.  But as far as I can tell, they haven't been active
in recent years.
> All of the active teams that I am aware of, except for Dan Shaw and 
> Cuddles, have miniature horses which were privately trained or owner
trained.
> 
> I hope that answers some of your questions.
> 
> Best,
> Ann
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Daryl Marie
> Sent: Thursday, February 20, 2014 12:47 PM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> Subject: [nagdu] Miniature Guide Horses WAS Cincinnati Family with 
> miniature horse service animal, sues city.
> 
> Hi, Ann,
> 
> May I ask what prompted the change from guide dogs to guide horse?  
> Who trains a guide horse?  Does it guide similar to a dog?  I am very
curious!
> 
> Daryl
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Ann Edie <annedie at nycap.rr.com>
> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Thu, 20 Feb 2014 13:34:56 -0700 (MST)
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Cincinnati Family with miniature horse service 
> animal, sues city.
> 
> Hi,
> 
> FYI, I use the same size plastic bags for picking up after my 
> miniature horse guide as I did for picking up after my dog guides.
> 
> Also, I keep my miniature horse guide at my property, a 
> privately-owned house in the suburbs with a lot not too much bigger 
> than the one mentioned in the article.  The town officials in my town 
> as well as the animal control officer and the code enforcement people 
> are all aware of the presence of my miniature horse guide, and none 
> has given me a hassle about it.  My area is zoned residential and does 
> not permit what they call livestock.  (I know this because the 
> neighbors and town officials certainly did react quickly when my 
> daughter attempted to keep 4 baby chickens she rescued from her 8th 
> grade biology class in a pen in our backyard.  That requires a zoning 
> variance and the agreement of the neighbors.)
> 
> Anyway, I'm not here to support the keeping of any or all of the other 
> animals, but my miniature horse at least is considerably quieter than 
> the dogs that live on either side of my property, both of which bark 
> incessantly at anyone who moves in their vicinity.  And as for smell, 
> I pick up after my horse 4-6 times a day and there is never a pile 
> left in the yard, whereas the neighbors' dogs are allowed to leave 
> piles in their yards for many days before the waste is picked up, if 
> ever.  And--this may be a matter of opinion--but horse manure is 
> nowhere near as bad smelling or objectionable to pick up as is dog
droppings.
> 
> My miniature horse is a trained service animal and I have the same 
> right to keep her in my home and to be accompanied by her in all 
> places of public accommodation as I would if she were a dog guide.  I 
> believe the family in this article may not be claiming that the horse 
> is a trained service animal for use in public, but rather as a 
> medically prescribed support animal which can be kept in the home 
> under the Fair Housing Act.  I have only seen this law used in the 
> case of public housing or rental properties, so don't know if that law 
> applies to privately owned homes and to town zoning codes.  But I have 
> heard of a couple of court cases where the lawyers brought into court 
> a miniature horse and a large, rambunctious mastiff or great Dane for 
> the court to compare as to which might be more noisy, smelly, and
disruptive to neighborhood tranquility.  Which do you think would come out
on top?
> 
> Best,
> Ann
> 
> 
> 
> 
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