[nagdu] Miniature Guide Horses WAS Cincinnati Family with miniature horse service animal, sues city.
Tai Blas
taiablas at gmail.com
Sun Feb 23 05:02:52 UTC 2014
I was asking about flying with a guide horse because a horse does not lie down and could not stay underneath the seat in front of its handler. Also, many flights are so full that there are no empty seats nearby. Even bulkhead rows are not spacious enough for dogs at times. I'm wondering what a guide horse handler would do in these situations.
Tai Tomasi
J.D. Candidate, class of 2014
Email: tai.tomasi8 at gmail.com
Sent from my iPhone. Please excuse my brevity and any grammatical errors.
> On Feb 22, 2014, at 9:18 PM, "Darla Rogers" <djrogers0628 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I am assuming, Tai, though I am sure Ann will chime in, she probably asks
> for a seat with the most leg room or an empty seat beside her if it's
> possible.
> Darla & handsome Huck
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Tai Blas
> Sent: Saturday, February 22, 2014 6:03 PM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Miniature Guide Horses WAS Cincinnati Family with
> miniature horse service animal, sues city.
>
> How could a guide horse fly on an airplane? Where would they stand?
>
> Tai Tomasi
> J.D. Candidate, class of 2014
> Email: tai.tomasi8 at gmail.com
> Sent from my iPhone. Please excuse my brevity and any grammatical errors.
>
>> On Feb 22, 2014, at 12:47 AM, "Ann Edie" <annedie at nycap.rr.com> wrote:
>>
>> Hi, Daryl and Everyone,
>>
>> You asked how or why I switched from using guide dogs to working with
>> a miniature horse guide. Well, my decision to work with a miniature
>> horse guide was prompted by many experiences and philosophical factors.
>>
>> First of all, perhaps, was my experience with guide dogs. After
>> working for
>> 9 years with my first, wonderful chocolate Labrador guide dog, I
>> experienced
>> 2 heart-breaking attempted partnerships with one male and one female
>> German shepherd guide. I decided that, even in the case of the very
>> successful guide dog, the working lifespan of dogs is painfully short,
>> and the disruption during the period of the decline of the working
>> guide, the loss of that relationship, the time of transition to a new
>> dog guide, and the period of adjustment and team building with the new
>> dog guide, were just too stressful for me physically, emotionally and
>> in terms of time commitment for me to want to repeat the process every
>> few years. And it is even harder if you throw in the occasional
>> mismatch or match with a dog who decides he/she really isn't prepared to
> work full time as a guide.
>>
>> Second, I am, and have always been, a horse lover. At the time I got
>> my miniature horse, I already owned 3 riding horses and was very
>> involved in their care and training. I knew that horses are
>> intelligent enough to do guide work and that many of them have the
>> temperament to do the work. I also knew that horses do look upon the
>> humans with whom they have close relationships as members of their
>> bands (families), and do take on the roles of companion and
>> guide/protector as needed. My own Arabian horse, Magnat, acted as my
>> guide both when I was riding him and when I was walking with him. I
>> had trained him to stop at changes of footing and elevation and before
>> going through doorways or gateways so that I could orient myself and
>> make sure the passage was clear. He was also a wonderful retriever
>> who would not only happily pick up grooming tools that regularly flew
>> out of my hand while I was vigorously brushing him, but would also
>> tidy up the arena by bringing me sundry objects which others had
>> dropped , like whips, hats, tissues, and little traffic cones. And
>> miniature horses have an average lifespan of 30-40 years or more,
>> compared with the 10-15 year lifespan of dogs, which means you can
>> expect an amazing, long-lasting and continuously deepening
>> relationship with one very special animal partner. Around the year
>> 2000 I began hearing reports of the Guide Horse Foundation's training
>> of the first miniature horses as guides for blind people, and I was
> intrigued. I had not known up to that time, that there were horses small
> enough to serve as guides.
>>
>> Third, through my interests in dogs and horses and their training
>> (obedience for dogs as well as guide work, and dressage riding and
>> general management for horses) I had become convinced that I wanted a
>> guide animal trained with methods which relied on positive
>> reinforcement rather than what is called "correction" in the guide dog
>> world. By the year 2000, methods which were based in behavioral
>> science and which relied on positive reinforcement were becoming the
>> norm in training dogs as well as most other species of animals for all
> types of management, performance, and companionship/obedience tasks.
>> However, guide dog training programs were largely entrenched in the
>> traditional methods which relied on correction both during the dogs'
>> training and in the relationship between the dog and handler after
>> placement. I had become accustomed to working with my horses and dogs
>> in the more positive way, and I no longer wanted to go back to the
>> punishment-based methods of the guide dog programs.
>>
>> Fourth, I was fortunate to be working and sharing a barn with
>> Alexandra Kurland, who is the foremost advocate of positive training
>> methods, specifically, clicker training, in the horse world. So when
>> I expressed to Alex my interest in perhaps working with a miniature
>> horse guide instead of a successor guide dog, she responded with a
>> proposal that we acquire and train a miniature horse to be my guide,
>> and that we use clicker training exclusively both to train and to
>> handle the guide horse, to which I enthusiastically agreed.
>>
>> So, in the summer of 2001, we started searching the internet for a
>> suitable young miniature horse. We found a good prospect in Florida,
>> flew down to meet her, and knew immediately that she would be our little
> clicker guide.
>> Panda came to live with Alex in September, 2001, in the days just
>> after 9-11 when we were all in a shocked daze, wondering what the
>> world would be like in the next months and years. She definitely
>> proved to be a bright star in a time of darkness and doubt. Panda was
>> just 8 months old when she started her training, which was a
>> combination of both basic socialization and guide training, and which
>> lasted about 18 months. She was actually ready to go to work
>> full-time earlier, but we didn't want to have her begin her working
>> life until she was over two years old. Panda came to live with me and
>> became my full-time guide in the summer of 2003, and she has been the
>> most wonderful, consistent, confident, and intelligent guide that
>> anyone could hope for. She just celebrated her 13th birthday, and we
>> have been working together for ten and a half years, with the prospect of
> decades of happy partnership ahead of us.
>>
>> In answer to your question about how guide horses work-- They do all
>> of the same guide tasks as guide dogs do, although sometimes they do
>> it a bit differently than the dogs. For example, instead of going
>> under a table or chair in a restaurant or on the bus, the guide horse
>> stands beside my chair or between the bus seats. The horses don't sit
>> as dogs do, but they either stand or lie down instead. They do all
>> the usual guide tasks such as stopping at curbs and stairs, going
>> around obstacles, changing speed for uneven footing or for ice, mud,
>> water, etc., looking out for overhead obstacles, turning left and
>> right on cue, monitoring moving vehicles at driveways and street
>> crossings and exercising intelligent disobedience when necessary, and
>> finding specific places in the environment, such as doors to go inside
>> or outside, elevators, stairs, checkout counters, pedestrian signal
>> buttons, home, etc. And yes, they are housetrained and relieve on leash
> and on cue, just as the dogs do.
>>
>> The organization I mentioned earlier, the Guide Horse Foundation,
>> trained the first working guide horse team, Dan Shaw and Cuddles, in
>> the spring of 2001. That organization trained a few more teams in the
>> next couple of years. But as far as I can tell, they haven't been active
> in recent years.
>> All of the active teams that I am aware of, except for Dan Shaw and
>> Cuddles, have miniature horses which were privately trained or owner
> trained.
>>
>> I hope that answers some of your questions.
>>
>> Best,
>> Ann
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Daryl Marie
>> Sent: Thursday, February 20, 2014 12:47 PM
>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>> Subject: [nagdu] Miniature Guide Horses WAS Cincinnati Family with
>> miniature horse service animal, sues city.
>>
>> Hi, Ann,
>>
>> May I ask what prompted the change from guide dogs to guide horse?
>> Who trains a guide horse? Does it guide similar to a dog? I am very
> curious!
>>
>> Daryl
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Ann Edie <annedie at nycap.rr.com>
>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Thu, 20 Feb 2014 13:34:56 -0700 (MST)
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Cincinnati Family with miniature horse service
>> animal, sues city.
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> FYI, I use the same size plastic bags for picking up after my
>> miniature horse guide as I did for picking up after my dog guides.
>>
>> Also, I keep my miniature horse guide at my property, a
>> privately-owned house in the suburbs with a lot not too much bigger
>> than the one mentioned in the article. The town officials in my town
>> as well as the animal control officer and the code enforcement people
>> are all aware of the presence of my miniature horse guide, and none
>> has given me a hassle about it. My area is zoned residential and does
>> not permit what they call livestock. (I know this because the
>> neighbors and town officials certainly did react quickly when my
>> daughter attempted to keep 4 baby chickens she rescued from her 8th
>> grade biology class in a pen in our backyard. That requires a zoning
>> variance and the agreement of the neighbors.)
>>
>> Anyway, I'm not here to support the keeping of any or all of the other
>> animals, but my miniature horse at least is considerably quieter than
>> the dogs that live on either side of my property, both of which bark
>> incessantly at anyone who moves in their vicinity. And as for smell,
>> I pick up after my horse 4-6 times a day and there is never a pile
>> left in the yard, whereas the neighbors' dogs are allowed to leave
>> piles in their yards for many days before the waste is picked up, if
>> ever. And--this may be a matter of opinion--but horse manure is
>> nowhere near as bad smelling or objectionable to pick up as is dog
> droppings.
>>
>> My miniature horse is a trained service animal and I have the same
>> right to keep her in my home and to be accompanied by her in all
>> places of public accommodation as I would if she were a dog guide. I
>> believe the family in this article may not be claiming that the horse
>> is a trained service animal for use in public, but rather as a
>> medically prescribed support animal which can be kept in the home
>> under the Fair Housing Act. I have only seen this law used in the
>> case of public housing or rental properties, so don't know if that law
>> applies to privately owned homes and to town zoning codes. But I have
>> heard of a couple of court cases where the lawyers brought into court
>> a miniature horse and a large, rambunctious mastiff or great Dane for
>> the court to compare as to which might be more noisy, smelly, and
> disruptive to neighborhood tranquility. Which do you think would come out
> on top?
>>
>> Best,
>> Ann
>>
>>
>>
>>
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