[nagdu] Miniature Guide Horses WAS Cincinnati Family withminiature horse service animal, sues city.

[L Gwizdak]

Hi Ann,
Great reading this!  What you didn't mention was the access issues you might 
have wioth a horse rather than a dog and what people's living arrangements 
are best for the horse guide owner.  Do you know of any in a city 
environment are are they mostly rural or susburb residents.

Thanks,

Lyn and Landon
"Asking who's the man and who's the woman in an LGBT relationship is like 
asking which chopstick is the fork" - Unknown
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Ann Edie" <annedie at nycap.rr.com>
To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'" 
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, February 21, 2014 10:47 PM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Miniature Guide Horses WAS Cincinnati Family 
withminiature horse service animal, sues city.


> Hi, Daryl and Everyone,
>
> You asked how or why I switched from using guide dogs to working with a
> miniature horse guide.  Well, my decision to work with a miniature horse
> guide was prompted by many experiences and philosophical factors.
>
> First of all, perhaps, was my experience with guide dogs.  After working 
> for
> 9 years with my first, wonderful chocolate Labrador guide dog, I 
> experienced
> 2 heart-breaking attempted partnerships with one male and one female 
> German
> shepherd guide.  I decided that, even in the case of the very successful
> guide dog, the working lifespan of dogs is painfully short, and the
> disruption during the period of the decline of the working guide, the loss
> of that relationship, the time of transition to a new dog guide, and the
> period of adjustment and team building with the new dog guide, were just 
> too
> stressful for me physically, emotionally and in terms of time commitment 
> for
> me to want to repeat the process every few years.  And it is even harder 
> if
> you throw in the occasional mismatch or match with a dog who decides 
> he/she
> really isn't prepared to work full time as a guide.
>
> Second, I am, and have always been, a horse lover.  At the time I got my
> miniature horse, I already owned 3 riding horses and was very involved in
> their care and training.  I knew that horses are intelligent enough to do
> guide work and that many of them have the temperament to do the work.  I
> also knew that horses do look upon the humans with whom they have close
> relationships as members of their bands (families), and do take on the 
> roles
> of companion and guide/protector as needed.  My own Arabian horse, Magnat,
> acted as my guide both when I was riding him and when I was walking with
> him.  I had trained him to stop at changes of footing and elevation and
> before going through doorways or gateways so that I could orient myself 
> and
> make sure the passage was clear.  He was also a wonderful retriever who
> would not only happily pick up grooming tools that regularly flew out of 
> my
> hand while I was vigorously brushing him, but would also tidy up the arena
> by bringing me sundry objects which others had dropped , like whips, hats,
> tissues, and little traffic cones.  And miniature horses have an average
> lifespan of 30-40 years or more, compared with the 10-15 year lifespan of
> dogs, which means you can expect an amazing, long-lasting and continuously
> deepening relationship with one very special animal partner.  Around the
> year 2000 I began hearing reports of the Guide Horse Foundation's training
> of the first miniature horses as guides for blind people, and I was
> intrigued.  I had not known up to that time, that there were horses small
> enough to serve as guides.
>
> Third, through my interests in dogs and horses and their training 
> (obedience
> for dogs as well as guide work, and dressage riding and general management
> for horses) I had become convinced that I wanted a guide animal trained 
> with
> methods which relied on positive reinforcement rather than what is called
> "correction" in the guide dog world.  By the year 2000, methods which were
> based in behavioral science and which relied on positive reinforcement 
> were
> becoming the norm in training dogs as well as most other species of 
> animals
> for all types of management, performance, and companionship/obedience 
> tasks.
> However, guide dog training programs were largely entrenched in the
> traditional methods which relied on correction both during the dogs'
> training and in the relationship between the dog and handler after
> placement.  I had become accustomed to working with my horses and dogs in
> the more positive way, and I no longer wanted to go back to the
> punishment-based methods of the guide dog programs.
>
> Fourth, I was fortunate to be working and sharing a barn with Alexandra
> Kurland, who is the foremost advocate of positive training methods,
> specifically, clicker training, in the horse world.  So when I expressed 
> to
> Alex my interest in perhaps working with a miniature horse guide instead 
> of
> a successor guide dog, she responded with a proposal that we acquire and
> train a miniature horse to be my guide, and that we use clicker training
> exclusively both to train and to handle the guide horse, to which I
> enthusiastically agreed.
>
> So, in the summer of 2001, we started searching the internet for a 
> suitable
> young miniature horse.  We found a good prospect in Florida, flew down to
> meet her, and knew immediately that she would be our little clicker guide.
> Panda came to live with Alex in September, 2001, in the days just after 
> 9-11
> when we were all in a shocked daze, wondering what the world would be like
> in the next months and years.  She definitely proved to be a bright star 
> in
> a time of darkness and doubt.  Panda was just 8 months old when she 
> started
> her training, which was a combination of both basic socialization and 
> guide
> training, and which lasted about 18 months.  She was actually ready to go 
> to
> work full-time earlier, but we didn't want to have her begin her working
> life until she was over two years old.  Panda came to live with me and
> became my full-time guide in the summer of 2003, and she has been the most
> wonderful, consistent, confident, and intelligent guide that anyone could
> hope for.  She just celebrated her 13th birthday, and we have been working
> together for ten and a half years, with the prospect of decades of happy
> partnership ahead of us.
>
> In answer to your question about how guide horses work--
> They do all of the same guide tasks as guide dogs do, although sometimes
> they do it a bit differently than the dogs.  For example, instead of going
> under a table or chair in a restaurant or on the bus, the guide horse 
> stands
> beside my chair or between the bus seats.  The horses don't sit as dogs 
> do,
> but they either stand or lie down instead.  They do all the usual guide
> tasks such as stopping at curbs and stairs, going around obstacles, 
> changing
> speed for uneven footing or for ice, mud, water, etc., looking out for
> overhead obstacles, turning left and right on cue, monitoring moving
> vehicles at driveways and street crossings and exercising intelligent
> disobedience when necessary, and finding specific places in the 
> environment,
> such as doors to go inside or outside, elevators, stairs, checkout 
> counters,
> pedestrian signal buttons, home, etc.  And yes, they are housetrained and
> relieve on leash and on cue, just as the dogs do.
>
> The organization I mentioned earlier, the Guide Horse Foundation, trained
> the first working guide horse team, Dan Shaw and Cuddles, in the spring of
> 2001.  That organization trained a few more teams in the next couple of
> years.  But as far as I can tell, they haven't been active in recent 
> years.
> All of the active teams that I am aware of, except for Dan Shaw and 
> Cuddles,
> have miniature horses which were privately trained or owner trained.
>
> I hope that answers some of your questions.
>
> Best,
> Ann
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Daryl Marie
> Sent: Thursday, February 20, 2014 12:47 PM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> Subject: [nagdu] Miniature Guide Horses WAS Cincinnati Family with 
> miniature
> horse service animal, sues city.
>
> Hi, Ann,
>
> May I ask what prompted the change from guide dogs to guide horse?  Who
> trains a guide horse?  Does it guide similar to a dog?  I am very curious!
>
> Daryl
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Ann Edie <annedie at nycap.rr.com>
> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Thu, 20 Feb 2014 13:34:56 -0700 (MST)
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Cincinnati Family with miniature horse service 
> animal,
> sues city.
>
> Hi,
>
> FYI, I use the same size plastic bags for picking up after my miniature
> horse guide as I did for picking up after my dog guides.
>
> Also, I keep my miniature horse guide at my property, a privately-owned
> house in the suburbs with a lot not too much bigger than the one mentioned
> in the article.  The town officials in my town as well as the animal 
> control
> officer and the code enforcement people are all aware of the presence of 
> my
> miniature horse guide, and none has given me a hassle about it.  My area 
> is
> zoned residential and does not permit what they call livestock.  (I know
> this because the neighbors and town officials certainly did react quickly
> when my daughter attempted to keep 4 baby chickens she rescued from her 
> 8th
> grade biology class in a pen in our backyard.  That requires a zoning
> variance and the agreement of the neighbors.)
>
> Anyway, I'm not here to support the keeping of any or all of the other
> animals, but my miniature horse at least is considerably quieter than the
> dogs that live on either side of my property, both of which bark 
> incessantly
> at anyone who moves in their vicinity.  And as for smell, I pick up after 
> my
> horse 4-6 times a day and there is never a pile left in the yard, whereas
> the neighbors' dogs are allowed to leave piles in their yards for many 
> days
> before the waste is picked up, if ever.  And--this may be a matter of
> opinion--but horse manure is nowhere near as bad smelling or objectionable
> to pick up as is dog droppings.
>
> My miniature horse is a trained service animal and I have the same right 
> to
> keep her in my home and to be accompanied by her in all places of public
> accommodation as I would if she were a dog guide.  I believe the family in
> this article may not be claiming that the horse is a trained service 
> animal
> for use in public, but rather as a medically prescribed support animal 
> which
> can be kept in the home under the Fair Housing Act.  I have only seen this
> law used in the case of public housing or rental properties, so don't know
> if that law applies to privately owned homes and to town zoning codes. 
> But
> I have heard of a couple of court cases where the lawyers brought into 
> court
> a miniature horse and a large, rambunctious mastiff or great Dane for the
> court to compare as to which might be more noisy, smelly, and disruptive 
> to
> neighborhood tranquility.  Which do you think would come out on top?
>
> Best,
> Ann
>
>
>
>
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