[nagdu] O&M skills

Tracy Carcione carcione at access.net
Fri Jan 31 18:16:11 UTC 2014 

How would one go about finding an O&M person willing to do private training? 
Do the various agencies purporting to serve the blind keep lists?  I suppose 
one could ask NFB chapter members if they knew of anyone, also.
Where else could one look?  I don't suppose they're in the Yellow Pages, or 
on Angie's List?
And what is the rate of pay?  I'd guess at least $50 an hour, but I could be 
way off.
Any ideas?
Tracy

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Larry D. Keeler" <lkeeler at comcast.net>
To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users" 
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, January 31, 2014 12:43 PM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] O&M skills


> You'd have to look in tyour area. The one I know probably wouldn't. Last I 
> knew he was based in Kalamazoo.
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: <cape.amanda at gmail.com>
> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users" 
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users" 
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Friday, January 31, 2014 11:47 AM
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] O&M skills
>
>
>> Would they come to Montreal?
>>
>> Amanda
>>
>>> On Jan 31, 2014, at 11:37 AM, "Larry D. Keeler" <lkeeler at comcast.net> 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> i KNOW SOME FOLKS WILL DO IT PRIVATELY BUT YOU WOULD ALSO HAVE TO PAY 
>>> THEM. L
>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: <cape.amanda at gmail.com>
>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users" 
>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>> Cc: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users" 
>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Friday, January 31, 2014 11:24 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] O&M skills
>>>
>>>
>>>> Me too. I live in Montreal and am forever on a waiting list.
>>>>
>>>> Amanda
>>>>
>>>>> On Jan 31, 2014, at 11:22 AM, "Tracy Carcione" <carcione at access.net> 
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi Melissa.
>>>>> Please do ask.  I think there are lots of people who'd like to know, 
>>>>> including me.
>>>>> Tracy
>>>>>
>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "melissa R green" 
>>>>> <graduate56 at juno.com>
>>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users" 
>>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Sent: Friday, January 31, 2014 11:00 AM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] O&M skills
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> I wonder if there is a way to get around being a client of rehab just 
>>>>>> to get
>>>>>> services like O&M.
>>>>>> there just has to be a way.
>>>>>> I have a really good instructor who also worked at a guide dog 
>>>>>> school.
>>>>>> Not all people are working or going to school.
>>>>>> they just want to live their life.
>>>>>> Might have to ask my instructor.
>>>>>> I am curious now.
>>>>>> best wishes,
>>>>>> Sincerely,
>>>>>> Melissa R Green
>>>>>> "Faith is taking the first step even when you don't see the whole
>>>>>> staircase." -- Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tracy Carcione" 
>>>>>> <carcione at access.net>
>>>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>>>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, January 30, 2014 1:17 PM
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] O&M skills
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi Julie M.
>>>>>> I agree wholeheartedly.  Being afraid to go out is very sad.  It also
>>>>>> disgusts me to hear of people who want to get training but can't find 
>>>>>> anyone
>>>>>> to provide it.  It ought to be a basic thing provided by any state 
>>>>>> agency
>>>>>> for the blind, to help any blind person who asks for it get timely 
>>>>>> training
>>>>>> in O&M.  Is there anything we can do about this?  And I don't mean 
>>>>>> just
>>>>>> telling everyone to take several months out of their lives to attend 
>>>>>> an NFB
>>>>>> center.  That's useful, but not always practical, IMO.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hector Chevigny, in My Eyes Have A Cold Nose, wrote that he thought 
>>>>>> it was
>>>>>> better for newly-blinded people to get a dog and get on about their 
>>>>>> lives,
>>>>>> rather than waiting on some agency for service forever, and, often 
>>>>>> enough,
>>>>>> being taught by the agency that he or she needed sighted help for
>>>>>> everything.  Now, that was written in the 1940's or early '50's, but 
>>>>>> I can
>>>>>> still see some merit in the argument.
>>>>>> It's a darned good thing that Leader has its cane class.  I wish 
>>>>>> there were
>>>>>> more options for people who can't seem to get the services they need.
>>>>>> Tracy
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Julie McGinnity" 
>>>>>> <kaybaycar at gmail.com>
>>>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>>>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, January 30, 2014 2:52 PM
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] O&M skills
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hi Tracey,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I agree with you, and that's a great speech.  I think it's great to
>>>>>>> work on O&M skills, but some people just have a harder time with
>>>>>>> directions and orientation.  Does that mean this should stop them?
>>>>>>> No.  But it does mean that they have to ask for help more often when
>>>>>>> finding a particular place or navigating somewhere for the first 
>>>>>>> time.
>>>>>>> It's about independence: getting where you need to go with no
>>>>>>> inconvenience to yourself or others.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The tools we use to do this don't matter as much as that we are
>>>>>>> getting out there and doing what we want to accomplish.  We all know
>>>>>>> people who's skills may not be as good or who may not do things the
>>>>>>> "right" way--or so we think, but let's work harder to encourage 
>>>>>>> those
>>>>>>> people who don't go anywhere, feel like they can't travel, or are 
>>>>>>> too
>>>>>>> afraid to get training of any kind.  Those cases to me are truly 
>>>>>>> sad.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 1/30/14, Darla Rogers <djrogers0628 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> Hi Tracy,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I couldn't agree more, and sadly, we will see more peo9ple without
>>>>>>>> skills perhaps as good as yours or mine, but if you can do what you 
>>>>>>>> need
>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>> do, in a manner that is comfortable for you, far be it for me to 
>>>>>>>> judge
>>>>>>>> your
>>>>>>>> independence or lack thereof.
>>>>>>>> Darla & Handsome Huck
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Tracy 
>>>>>>>> Carcione
>>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2014 1:03 PM
>>>>>>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>>>>>>> Subject: [nagdu] O&M skills
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> While I agree that good orientation skills are an excellent thing, 
>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>> make
>>>>>>>> using a dog a lot better for both partners, I've known some people 
>>>>>>>> who
>>>>>>>> didn't seem capable of finding their way out of the proverbial 
>>>>>>>> paper bag,
>>>>>>>> and yet used the dog effectively to get where they wanted to go.
>>>>>>>> A late lamented friend of mine always seemed confused about which 
>>>>>>>> way to
>>>>>>>> go,
>>>>>>>> but he travelled all over the country and the world, going places 
>>>>>>>> I'm
>>>>>>>> sure
>>>>>>>> I'll never go.  Was he the ideal dog user?  No.  Did he get where 
>>>>>>>> he
>>>>>>>> wanted
>>>>>>>> to go, when he wanted to get there?  Absolutely.  Yet he was 
>>>>>>>> sneered at
>>>>>>>> by
>>>>>>>> people who seldom stepped outside their familiar routes.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I recommend people read, or re-read, Jernigan's essay, The Nature 
>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>> Independence, which I'm sure is somewhere on nfb.org. Dr. Jernigan 
>>>>>>>> argues
>>>>>>>> persuasively that getting where you want to go when you want to go 
>>>>>>>> is the
>>>>>>>> quintessence of independence, and judging others for how they 
>>>>>>>> accomplish
>>>>>>>> that goal is not particularly useful.
>>>>>>>> All I'm trying to say is, we can encourage people to improve their 
>>>>>>>> O&M
>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>> high standard, and help them find the resources they need to do so, 
>>>>>>>> but
>>>>>>>> not
>>>>>>>> look down on them if they're unable to do it, or assume that, if 
>>>>>>>> their
>>>>>>>> O&M
>>>>>>>> doesn't seem excellent, that they are not independent people 
>>>>>>>> getting
>>>>>>>> where
>>>>>>>> they want to go.
>>>>>>>> Tracy
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> nagdu mailing list
>>>>>>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
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>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -- 
>>>>>>> Julie McG
>>>>>>> National Association of Guide dog Users board member,  National
>>>>>>> Federation of the Blind performing arts division secretary,
>>>>>>> Missouri Association of Guide dog Users President,
>>>>>>> and Guiding Eyes for the Blind graduate 2008
>>>>>>> "For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that
>>>>>>> everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal
>>>>>>> life."
>>>>>>> John 3:16
>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>> nagdu:
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>>>>>>
>>>>>>
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>>>>>
>>>>>
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