[nagdu] acceptance of owner training was Arkansas School Refuses To Hold Leash For 7-Year-Old Boy's Service Dog

Darla Rogers djrogers0628 at gmail.com
Mon Jul 14 19:07:22 UTC 2014

Dear Julie,

I'm worry a lot more about people :higher on the status of disability:
training their dogs better than we can; hell!  Most of them just buy a
harness and/or a patch; put a  too-long leash on it and call it done.

Now, one wonders if some of them even have a disability, but I better stop
or Marsha will pin my ears back.
Darla & Happy Huck

-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Julie J via nagdu
Sent: Monday, July 14, 2014 1:54 PM
To: Danielle Antoine; NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide
Dog Users
Subject: Re: [nagdu] acceptance of owner training was Arkansas School
Refuses To Hold Leash For 7-Year-Old Boy's Service Dog

I think owner training is more accepted than it once was, but to say that it
is "accepted" as in the same way service dogs from programs are accepted...I
don't think so.

The folks on this list tend to be more accepting of owner training, but even
here there are people who think it is dangerous and the dog won't be trained
to the same level as a progam dog.  

If you talk about owner training a guide dog as a blind person on email
lists for other types of service dogs, you will generally meet with great
resistance.  I think because blind people are near the bottom of the social
status disability ladder.  So blind people couldn't possibly train their own

I've had blind people, who are cane users, say pretty awful things about my
choice to owner train.  Mostly that happened in the beginning though.  I
guess enough people have seen my dogs work, at least in my home area, that
it's no longer an interesting topic of conversation.

Sighted people I encounter in my day to day life couldn't care less, for the
most part.  Mostly they see a blind person and a dog and they fabricate the
rest of the story based on what they saw on TV.  The part about my having
trained the dog doesn't come up very often.  Generally I don't bring it up.
Sometimes people ask though, and I am very open about the fact that I
trained him.  I think a lot of times they want to know where I got the dog
because they have some knowledge or affiliation with some program or
another.  When they find out I trained him, they are astonished that it is
legal/possible or they want to know if it's legal.  I'm not sure what the
immediate response of, "is that legal", says about our culture...too many
laws?...too much restriction on our freedom?...a statement about what
disabled people's place in society?  I don't know.

Then we get to service dog programs...there are a couple that don't react
like beligerant idiots about owner trained dogs, but the rest...well, I'll
just stop there.  The short version is that most of the guide and service
dog programs do not like the idea of owner training.

anyway, that's my opinion based on my personal experience.  It will be
interesting to see what other owner trainers have experienced.

Sent from my iPad

> On Jul 14, 2014, at 1:24 PM, Danielle Antoine via nagdu <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Tami,
> I like how you dissected my points. that's what I was looking for.
> Buddy, whether or not it was your intention you came at me like the 
> enemy! Any veteran who has worked in the service dog arena personally 
> or who has availed themselves of the many lists know that a specific 
> program does not have to be named and that owner-training is 
> recognized and acceptable. I, myself, am not in the right situation in 
> life to take it on. It is a lot less trouble for me, at this point to 
> just attend a training program for my nex guide. I was just curious 
> because I wondered what program would give license to a 7-year-old 
> child to handle and be responsible for a dog requiring an additional 
> person. Just seems sooooo unnecessary! As for me, my pup is retired 
> and living the good life of a pet dog and children and exes don't 
> count at this time. Good day, Sir.
> Best with your owner training undertakings, Danielle Ledet and retired 
> Seeing Eye Golden girl, Eden
>> On 7/14/14, Tami Jarvis via nagdu <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>> Rebecca,
>> You're right about the dog's ability to sense the seizure (or 
>> whatever medical disorder) -- it can or it can't. However, the 
>> difference between a plain old dog that happens to be able to detect 
>> seizures and a medical alert service dog is whether the dog is 
>> trained to perform a specific alerting behavior. Often the medical 
>> alert SD will perform additional actions, like getting the handler to 
>> a safe place to prepare for the seizure, laying on the handler to 
>> help prevent injury during the seizure and a few other things. The 
>> article mentioned that the dog has eliminated the need for 
>> medication, so I guess locating the medicine bottle for the handler
wouldn't be needed.
>> As for the rest, I just don't know. Part of it is that I am not all 
>> that well-informed about the issues when it comes to kids, service 
>> dogs and schools. I can see both sides, depending on which way I 
>> squint. I wonder if having a staffer handle the dog in this case 
>> could be considered to be the equivalent of having a staffer push a 
>> wheelchair? Or do the dog's needs for handling make it that much more

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