[nagdu] [nagdu' new dog, sniffing, and scavenging

Thu Jul 31 15:53:17 UTC 2014

Gallant Hearts in MS, has no kennels. The dogs are raised and then later
trained in a home, then presented to the new handler. 

Independence Guide Dogs in Seattle has the same set up, with no kennnels.

Both are small schools. 

Becky and Jake 
-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Nicole Torcolini
via nagdu
Sent: Wednesday, July 30, 2014 7:38 PM
To: 'Raven Tolliver'; 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide
Dog Users'
Subject: Re: [nagdu] [nagdu' new dog, sniffing, and scavenging

Hahaha, I like your analogy about dogs in the kennels being like kids in
college. I completely agree about the dogs picking up bad habits while
staying in the kennel. To date, I only know of one school that does "home to
harness" (if I remember correctly). I understand that it is hard for large
schools to do this, but a month or even just a week staying in a house
instead of the kennel before being given to someone would make all of the
difference. It might not be enough time to Break some of the habits, but,
JMHO, it would help significantly with some of the relieving problems. When
I got Lexia seven years ago, the dogs came to us right out of the kennels
(luckily, they got a bath first). For a little while, when we would relieve
them, the trainers would tell us when/what our dogs were doing because they
were not yet used to being touched while relieving. Thus, I could not tell
very well what Lexia was doing. So Lexia would do number 2. And then what?
She would do what Raven mentioned, but I would not know it. By the time that
one of the trainers saw her and communicated to me what was happening, Lexia
would have already realized that she had been caught and stop. Consequently,
since the undesirable behavior had already stopped, I could not correct her.
I do not remember how we finally resolved it, if I actually caught her in
time once or if she just stopped. In any case, after I got home and got the
whole relieving routine down, I would avoid letting it happen again by
making her sit out of range while I cleaned up. GDB did use corrections more
back then, but they also drove home the fact that you cannot correct after
the fact as dogs live in the moment. They told us this for both positive and
negative, hence the clicker training.
For dog distractions, most of the time, I try to just keep moving,
especially if I have heard the dog, but Lexia has not reacted to it yet. If
I am walking sighted guide with someone, I might ask them to walk a little
faster or to move away from the other dog. I do not know if it is a dog that
she is after, but I have also learned to detect when the extra pep in
Lexia's step is trouble rather than good. If Lexia is distracted by a dog, I
generally do not stop and do obedience, especially if the dog sounds
particularly unfriendly and I am not sure whether or not the dog is on
leash. Pet dogs are allowed to come to work where I work. Luckily, most of
the people near me who bring their dogs to work know of me and Lexia and
will keep their dogs away and/or tell them to stop barking if they bark.

Nicole and Lexia

-----Original Message-----
From: Raven Tolliver [mailto:ravend729 at gmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, July 30, 2014 5:32 AM
To: Nicole Torcolini; NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide
Dog Users
Subject: Re: [nagdu] [nagdu' new dog, sniffing, and scavenging

I think what happens to many dogs is they develop bad habits in the kennels.
Sending a dog to a kennel for 4-6+ months after 1 to 1-1/2 years of living
in a house is similar to sending a child off to college after working hard
to ingrain them with good habits and manners while they lived with their
parents. The child will no longer have someone supervising the way they live
and maintain themselves/their living space, so those good habits go to pot
until they're in an environment or circumstance where they're expected to be
more responsible and well-maintained.
Obviously, the trainers work hard with the dogs' manners in-harness, but
that one-on-one time is not as effective as it would be if the dog was
living in a home. This is one of the reasons why I am so ra-ra kennel-free
training. The larger schools can't do that, but it definitely would put a
dent in the dogs coming out of the schools with bad habits.
When I first got the Golden Guy, he would pick stuff up off the floor and
out of low trash cans. My puppy-raisers said that it must have come from him
being a kennel dog, and that they had ensured that he would not scavenge or
beg. They told me to work on that with him to undo any bad habits he
developed in the kennels. With a few training sessions after I returned to
Michigan, I was able to remind him that he knew better.
I have also seen dogs come out of the kennels eat their own feces, jump up
on people or furniture inappropriately , and do other unacceptable
behaviors.

Corrections will not fix a habitual sniffer/scavenger, or any kind of
habitual distraction. With a distraction like this, you need to address the
problem actively rather than retroactively. Corrections are retroactive
because you're addressing the inappropriate behavior after it has happened.
That  might be effective if the dog has not yet reaped the unintentional
rewards of being distracted time and time again. Unfortunately, that's not
the case.
You need to be a step ahead of your dog. Learn their body language so that
you know when your dog is about to go for something on the ground. This
information is important. Now, you can catch your dog before they even act
up. As I said in my earlier post, grab your dog's attention and give an
alternative. Sniffing can't happen if the dog sits or keeps moving along.
What I do with dogs is I start walking faster, bouncing the leash, and
speaking in an excited voice. "Come on! Let's go, let's go!" The dog
immediately refocuses and ignores the distraction.
I tried corrections with the Golden Guy when I first got him. He has a
moderate to high dog distraction. Corrections did nothing to help the
situation. If anything, it probably made it worse. When I switched to
positive methods, I was able to work with his distraction in a way that
didn't leave me frustrated, and feeling as though I had not changed a thing.
Positive methods made me think differently. What would I rather my dog do
than go for another dog? Well I would like him to simply move past it. But
we had to work our way up to that. I tried to get him to keep moving, but I
couldn't get him to focus on his work. So I had to break it down into baby
steps.
First, I would just have him sit whenever another dog would pass us up.
While he sat, I worked on getting his attention with my voice, sound cues,
and treats. Once I could get his attention, then I reapproached moving past
the dog. I first worked on this with him on-leash and out-of-harness. Then I
added the harness in after he was able to move past dogs while just
on-leash. Like I do with the other dogs I train, I would walk faster past
the dog, speak to him to keep him focused: "Let's go, buddy. Good job. Good
focus. focus, buddy. good work!" and pause to praise him up after we passed
the dog because it's quite a feat! Now this does not work 100% of the time,,
but his distraction is 80% better than it was when we started working
together. And for those times when he will not cooperate, we just sit and
wait it out, or I heel him past the dog. No corrections needed.

On 7/29/14, Nicole Torcolini via nagdu <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> Sometimes, corrections followed by rewards can help stop a behavior, 
> but it sounds as though that is not the case for you. Is there 
> anything in particular that he does when he sniffs? Are there certain 
> things that cause him to sniff more than others? Is there anything 
> that you know will get his attention? For example, it gets the 
> attention of some dogs if you just stop dead in your tracks and drop 
> the harness handle. Did they tell you what to do about the sniffing in 
> class? I wonder if his puppy raisers let him get away with sniffing.
>
> Nicole
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Danielle Sykora [mailto:dsykora29 at gmail.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, July 29, 2014 6:21 AM
> To: Nicole Torcolini
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] [nagdu' new dog, sniffing, and scavenging
>
> Sorry it has taken me so long to respond. I agree with Raven. I want 
> my dog to work for the possibility of rewards, not to avoid 
> correction. Yes, corrections temporarily stop a behavior but they 
> don't
fix it over time.
> When I correct my dog for sniffing, he stops for the moment but will 
> start sniffing again a short time later. He has always been sniffy, 
> even during class.
>
> Danielle
>
>
>
> On 7/27/14, Nicole Torcolini <ntorcolini at wavecable.com> wrote:
>> Was he sniffy during class, or is this a new behavior?
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Danielle 
>> Sykora via nagdu
>> Sent: Sunday, July 27, 2014 9:51 AM
>> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>> Subject: [nagdu] [nagdu' new dog, sniffing, and scavenging
>>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> I returned home from GDF on Friday with my new dog, a male lab/golden 
>> cross named Thai. Since we have gotten home, I have begun to avoid 
>> using corrections, especially leash corrections. He tends to be quite 
>> sniffy, especially in places with a lot of food. A firm "leave it"
>> usually is sufficient but it can be difficult to quickly get his
> attention.
>> Also, he will scavenge for food and pick up dropped items which he 
>> really should not be eating. This behavior mostly occurs out of 
>> harness, but it is still undesirable. Any thoughts on decreasing 
>> sniffing and strengthening food refusal skills using positive methods?
>>
>> Danielle
>>
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>
>
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--
Raven
"if God didn't make it, don't eat it." - John B. Symes, D.V.M.
http://dogtorj.com

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