[nagdu] fear and correction

Mon Jun 16 04:18:36 UTC 2014

LOL. Sometimes, I honestly  wonder where people get some of their ideas
about service dogs. Dogs with rubber teeth? Dogs that don't bark? What's
next? Dogs that don't shed? Okay, yes, I have heard of a surgery that makes
it where a dog cannot bark, but that is not something that service dog
training centers are going to do. For certain things, such as making a dog
where he/she cannot bark or declawing a cat, I think that that is going a
little too far because it is taking away from the animal the ability to use
natural instincts, thus often confusing, frustrating, and frightening the
animal even more.

Nicole and Lexia who does not bark much but could if she wanted to

-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Raven Tolliver
via nagdu
Sent: Sunday, June 15, 2014 9:11 PM
To: Daryl Marie; NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog
Users
Subject: Re: [nagdu] fear and correction

Oh yes, because service dogs don't ever bark.
Until I returned home with the Golden Guy, my mother thought that all
service dogs had surgeries that rendered them unable to bark at all.
She sure unlearned that quickly!

Daryl, I too experienced the embarrassment of the Golden Guy barking in
harness while working. A couple months after  I got him, he barked while I
was eating in the dining hall, and another time when I was waiting for my
food at an on-campus cafe. Both times, people seemed to think there was
something wrong that he was trying to alert to, not that he was misbehaving.

On 6/15/14, Daryl Marie via nagdu <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> Dan,
> Thanks for this post.  I actually had a horribly embarrassing 
> experience today at the mall.  I was meeting an old friend this 
> afternoon, and Jenny barked at him... 3-4 times.  her bark is loud, 
> and the spot we were in had quite an echo.  I was able to calm her 
> down, but it was horribly embarrassing when a mall security guard came 
> up to me and asked if she was a service dog...
>
> Daryl
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Dan Weiner via nagdu <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> To: barbandzoe at comcast.net, 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National 
> Association of Guide Dog Users' <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Sun, 15 Jun 2014 14:39:06 -0600 (MDT)
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] fear and correction
>
> I think what we might be forgetting here is that these are dogs and 
> not robots.
> I'm not saying to let your dog sniff or scavenge or whatever, that is 
> a question of your comfort level.
> I am saying that to expect that it won't happen is making the mistake 
> of thinking the dog is a robot, dogs sometimes sniff or look for food 
> and bark and so on.
>
> In this way we are unwittingly falling in to the same trap as the 
> general public who thinks that our dogs are super dogs.
> How many times has my dog of the moment say sniffed something and I 
> got the dog's attention back and someone will say "I thought they didn't
do that.".
> Or "I thought they wee trained better," or "I thought they were 
> trained not to do that.".
>
> Now as far as barking, I suppose it really depends what the stimulus 
> it is that is causing the problem and how often and under what
circumstances.
>
> Now having said that, I do think our dogs are amazing, but not for the 
> same reason as the well-meaning if sometimes educated public.
> I think the fact that we are interacting with a different species if 
> you will to get our needs accomplished, in this case getting around, 
> is a pretty inspiring thing.
>
>
> Yours sincerely,
>
> Dan the man, Parker the dog
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: 	 [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Barb breuer
via
> nagdu
> Sent: Sunday, June 15, 2014 4:19 PM
> To: Andrew
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] fear and correction
>
> I would have to agree with you.  I was always told that  when the dog 
> is in harness he is working and should acted accordingly.  But when 
> out of harness he is a well behaved dog.  In or out of harness he 
> should listen to you.
> Sent from Xfinity Connect Mobile App
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Andrew J. LaPointe via nagdu
> To: Sherry Gomes, NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of 
> Guide Dog Users
> Sent: June 13, 2014 at 4:43 AM
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] fear and correction
>
>             Hi, at Fidelco, I was told that it was fine to let my dog 
> sniff out of harness.  When the harness is on, he is to be corrected if
sniffing.
>
> I was told by what I look at as an expert and very well experienced 
> dog handler that barking out of harness is acceptable.  As long as 
> they know the differences of work and just being a dog..  Andy and 
> Shubert
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Sherry Gomes via nagdu
> Sent: Friday, June 13, 2014 4:34 AM
> To: 'Julie J.' ; 'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide 
> Dog Users'
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] fear and correction
>
> I'm the same way, out of harness sniffing and even barking are fine. 
> I've found that being allowed to sniff out of harness is relaxing and 
> as stress reliever for my dogs. And barking now and then doesn't 
> bother me. None of my dogs have ever been excessive about it, barking 
> nonstop for long periods of time. out of harness they are just dogs 
> and I don't mind letting them be. I remember an instructor in my first 
> guide dog class in 1975 telling us to remember that our guides were 
> dogs first and guide dogs second. That's helped me understand my dogs 
> better over the years but it also made me okay with doggie behavior 
> like sniffing and barking.
>
> Sherry
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Julie J. 
> via nagdu
> Sent: Thursday, June 12, 2014 7:30 PM
> To: Nicole Torcolini; NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of 
> Guide Dog Users
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] fear and correction
>
> But that's the thing, sniffing and barking are not a problem for me.  
> I freely allow both out of harness...unless he goes way overboard.  If 
> that happens I just redirect him to something else that isn't 
> bothersome.  I don't correct for sniffing or barking.
>
> Neither behavior, sniffing or barking, is an issue in harness.  Monty 
> has never barked away from the house in or out of harness.  He will 
> occasionally
>
> sniff, but it isn't a frequent thing or something that distracts him from
> what he's supposed to be doing.   His sniffing is more like breathing
> deeply
>
> in the general direction of something.  He doesn't deviate from the 
> path and
>
> he doesn't plant his face smack into the middle of whatever it is he wants
> to smell.  I'm quite content with the current arrangement.   It's working
> for us and I see no need to change it.
>
> Julie
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Nicole Torcolini via nagdu
> Sent: Thursday, June 12, 2014 7:29 PM
> To: 'Julie J.' ; 'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide 
> Dog Users'
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] fear and correction
>
> Lexia was never a barker anyway, so it is not a problem with which I 
> have had to deal. There are some behaviors, such as running around and 
> having fun, that I allow out of harness but not in harness. However, 
> there are others, such as sniffing and, if it was a problem, barking, 
> that I do not allow at all.
>
> Nicole and the quiet Lexia
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Julie J. 
> via nagdu
> Sent: Thursday, June 12, 2014 3:58 PM
> To: Daryl Marie; NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide 
> Dog Users
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] fear and correction
>
> I don't think I'm probably the best person for advice about unwanted
> barking!  LOL  My dogs bark like insane maniacs in the yard.   My
> philosophy
>
> is that they are dogs and dogs bark and they should embrace their 
> dogness and bark...in the yard, in daylight hours and stop before my 
> head starts pounding or the neighbors start complaining!
>
> It is interesting that when I have Monty out with me in the unfenced 
> portion of the yard, he doesn't bark, like ever.  The only two places 
> he has ever barked are in the house and in the fenced yard, both 
> places where he's
> contained in some way.   Perhaps it's an issue of frustration that he
can't
> go check out what he's looking/barking at?   I don't let him go check out
> random things when he's in harness, but maybe he feels like he's freer 
> to look at things?  I don't know.  It's interesting to ponder though.
>
> Julie
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Daryl Marie via nagdu
> Sent: Thursday, June 12, 2014 1:45 PM
> To: Julie J.
> Cc: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] fear and correction
>
> Julie,
>
> Your Monty sounds a lot like Jenny in behavior.  She has only ever 
> barked 3 times  in harness:
> 1) When a really drunk REALLY weird guy approached me at a bus stop 
> (I've had weird/drunk people approach me before, but this one set her 
> off)
> 2) When someone was tying their shoe in the middle of a sidewalk. She 
> couldn't go around him (busy street to  my left, 3-foot snowbank on my
> right)
> 3) When a bartender made prolonged uninterrupted eye contact with her.
>
> Usually, though, out of harness, I am almost always with her when she 
> barks.
>
> At home I would be on the computer and she'll just perk up and bark at 
> something.  Perhaps the redirection is a good one.
>
> This begs another question.  Sometimes Jenny will bark at neighbors if 
> she sees them when we step outside to relieve.  This only happens at 
> home, never anywhere else.  Any advice?
>
> Daryl and the vocal Jenny
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Julie J. via nagdu <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> To: Abigail Bolling <violingirl30794 at gmail.com>, NAGDU Mailing List, 
> the National Association of Guide Dog Users <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Thu, 12 Jun 2014 12:01:09 -0600 (MDT)
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] fear and correction
>
> At home I call Monty to me and praise him for coming.  If him leaving 
> the situation and coming to me doesn't seem to enhance his calm I will 
> use calming petting or tell him to down and stay until the UPS 
> delivery guy is gone or the neighbors are done with their loud 
> conversation in the street or whatever.  With Monty, it's an alert 
> behavior.  he wants me to know there's something going on.  when I 
> acknowledge that, he usually quits.
>
> Admittedly, he's kind of barky at home.  I've just come to accept that 
> he's always going to let me know there's something happening outside.
> Interestingly he does not feel the need to bark when we are out and about.
> I'm okay with this arrangement.
>
> Julie
>
>
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--
Raven

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